Subject: [AthofSV] Patriarchy

From: "lydia rice" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:37:41 -0800

Jonathan -

It's interesting that you have respect for the old patriarchal model, even 
while you reject it for yourself.  I'm glad your parents have made so many 
efforts to support you.

The biggest reason why it is very difficult for me to respect that model is 
that, in my family, my father and brothers were valued at a much higher 
level than my mother or I was.  In a few words, "the men are IT, the women 
are shit."  Not surprisingly, my brothers all still buy into it.  (Amazingly 
enough, none of them can find a woman to share their views!)  What is 
unfathomable to me is that my mother still wholeheartedly buys into the 
position that she is a "servant" (her term).  Bleagh.  Of course, you know 
that this is all based on biblical dogma.  And you can bet I never got the 
support from my parents that it appears you did.  And forget respect.

So... I'm not insulted by being called an ego-driven woman.  My experience 
is that no one gives you anything unless you at minimum ask for it, but 
usually you have to demand it, and sometimes you have to walk away if you 
can't get what you need.  Without an ego, in other words, a strong knowledge 
of my high value, I would never have gotten away from that stultifying, 
unrewarding, male-serving life.

No. I choose who I am, I choose my path, and that takes ego.  Hmmm, am I 
"saddled" with the belief that equality is better than this type of 
inequality?  Well, for the woman in the picture, it damn well is!  The man 
makes out a little better, huh?

Lydia
P.S.  Could I have ever become anything but a flaming Feminist Athiest 
Liberal?  I doubt it!

>From: "earthboundje" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: [AthofSV] Re: A quick explanation of "Headship"
>Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:38:30 -0000
>
>
>For those who appreciate hierarchies of social responsibility, your
>father's analysis rings quite true with me.  I'm sure the victory he
>perceives in credibility is quickly balanced out by his sense of
>personal duty toward those who are "under" him.
>
>I know my father and mother ascribe to this BYGONE ANCIENT model,
>but despite the fact that it has made them act superior toward me,
>they have broken their backs to live up to the sense of duty as
>well.  I know many no longer have any respect for the model, but
>I... do.
>
>- Jonathan
>
>PS - In linguistics we have heads and hierarchies as well.  Today's
>linear conversions are having a hard time perceiving the duplicity
>of our ability to express value while negating it.  In other words,
>the world is changing artificially, in order to accomodate an almost
>robotic sense of intellectual homogeneity.  I'm quite positive that
>I DON'T ascribe to that.  But then, of course, I'm not an ego-driven
>woman, so I'm not saddled with the belief that equality is an
>improvement.
>
>With that I don't mean to offend anyone, but it really ought to take
>all kinds.  I don't think it does anymore.  Then again, my class
>voted against any semantic value of the unindexed head "it", thereby
>alienating some of my most basic perceptions of the universe.  They
>regret their haste now, but since they can't articulate why, they
>live with the disparity internally.  I struggle with the
>conspiracy.  At least with a hierarchy there's always a head to chop
>off.
>

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WwRTUD/SOnJAA/i1hLAA/OzVolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

Wed. 3/9, 7:30 - What Really Happened on Nov 22, 1963?
Sat. 3/12, 9am-4:30pm - Americans United Activist Training
Wed. 3/23, 7:30 - Money: Red, Blue or Green?

Everyone is welcome at our meetings.

If you're not worried, you're not paying attention.

ASV Library at meetings: bring books & magazines; get books and magazines.
See our website http://www.godlessgeeks.com

Keep the msgs to Atheist topics.
Help keep email overflow down. Make your posts short; clean out old text in any responses that you make.

If you want to join a liberal political discussion, see [email-masked]

To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[email-masked] 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/athofsv/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email-masked]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/