Subject: [AthofSV] Pope Mania Part Two.

From: "DAVID GOGGIN" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:31:07 -0700

Yeah I agree that in many ways this pope was a disaster to human rights and 
decency.  but one should not paint it all black and white.  For example, he 
was vehemently opposed to the Iraq war as I am guessing most atheists were 
too.  He was against the death penalty, as I am, though for a different 
reason.  I think he was aghast at the violence and superficiality that one 
sees in young people today (as evidenced by the nasty and brutish video 
games they play, and their mistreatment of animals, the disrespect toward 
education, the ugly and repetitious music they seem satisfied to blast into 
their ears at high volume, and lack of basic civility and cultivation of 
manners, dress, and hair style) and I think that's something we as atheists 
can also agree with that pope is a major crisis  for our civilization.  
Finally, he was correct to point out the dangers of commercialism over 
spirituality, again a think alot of atheists can agree with this stance, 
though from a different angle -- that one cannot get off the brain's hedonic 
treadmill in any permanent way merely by acquiring the trappings of power, 
stuff, etc -- though one should not confuse commercialism and consumerism 
with Progress. (i.e. in medical research, etc)

I know catholics.  They are hadly in lockstep with this guy.  married 
priests are only a few years away.  Women priests maybe longer, 20 years I 
would guess.

I also take issue witht he assertion that whoever succeeds him will be at 
least as bad.  This is not necessarily the case.

I have come to realize part of what makes the catholic church so enduring 
(both on the macro and local level) is what I might call "tradition 
management" -- they are rooted in a long tradition and are fully conscious 
of that.  They see themselves as part of Something Big.  Now whether that 
something is entirely fanciful is beside the point.  The point is, that they 
consider that what they are doing as having large significance in the 
universe and thus adorn their doings with the sort of trappings and rituals 
befitting the perceived (and perceived by their followers) import thereof.  
This is something we could take a lesson from as the work of scientists and 
scholars inthe secular world is no less important and significant, and has 
the added advantage of being based in reality not ancient fairy tales.

For example, if I met a single atheist woman who thought Latin was a 
beautiful language I would be greatly charmed by that.

What I often see in the atheist scene (and among other liberal -- in the 
classical, rather than modern sense - groups) is a sort of perennial 
rebelliousness in that these groups see themselves as being constantly in 
the process of breaking tradition rather than being rooted in traditions 
(and romanticizing traditions) of their own.  and i think the public catches 
onto that in some way.  But merely having rituals and marking important 
events with proper ceremony (of our own making) should not be mistaken for 
religiousity.

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