Subject: Re: [Catalina22] Mooring ball and Dinghy

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:05:16 -0500

Turk~

That is unbelievable! If the deal were any better, I'd have you arrested for heft!!

Thanx for all mooring input.  Now I've got another project that I didn't need!  Until the mooring is setup right, looks like I'll be pulling SeaBatical in and out with the trailer.

P.S. Your reply to Baynard's email was the most entertaining thing I've read on the list.

Fair winds,
-- 
Dan Schafer
Traverse City, MI
"SeaBatical"
1983 Swing Keel~#11577

turk <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Dan
>
>Forgot to answer your last question!
>
>The dinghy looks to be about 10 years old.  I found it on Ebay last  
>winter.  The gentleman was from the upper New York area and in the  
>auction said he would not ship.  Consequently very few bid on it and I  
>got it for $300 and a long road trip (6 hours one way).  It was a great  
>deal, included electric and manual pump, oars and repair kit.  It is a  
>Seaworthy, one of Boat US's brands. I power it with a 2 1/2 hp merc  
>outboard.  I also built a trailer for it to get it down to the  
>launching ramp.  I don't believe I have pictures of the trailer - all  
>aluminum for about $75.
>
>turk
>kitty
>
>
>
>
>On Mar 15, 2005, at 2:53 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
>> Turk~
>
>> The dinghy looks very good ... how old is that inflatable?
>>
>>
>> --  
>> Dan Schafer
>> Traverse City, MI
>> "SeaBatical"
>> 1983 Swing Keel~#11577
>>
>>
>> Turk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>> As one project gets finished I would like to show all the new mooring
>>> bridle (thanks to Baylard's instructions) and the new flooring (well,
>>> painted with 3 coats of polyurethan paint) in my Dinghy.  The bridle
>>> uses 3/4 3 line rope with one galvanized steel thimbull for the
>>> attachment to the underside of the ball, and another plain spliced eye
>>> to run the double braided line to.  I am considering splitting that  
>>> line
>>> and making 2 knots to the triple braided line just for security
>>> reasons.  If one line were to break, the other would not get untied.
>>>
>>> http://www.elmhurstprop.com/mooring/index.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> The mast you see on the mooring ball is a new invention (well, I
>>> actually stole the idea from another manufacturer) that allows me to
>>> point the nose to the mooring ball and actually see where it is at  
>>> (the
>>> red ball on top) as the first mate picks up the the bridle and hooks  
>>> on
>>> to the cleats.  The weight of the chain should keep the mast up (light
>>> weight fiberglass fishing pole) and keep it quite vertical with the  
>>> rope
>>> hung on it.
>>>
>>> I guess I'm looking for another solution than using the old boat hook.
>>> I always pull into the mooring field and then scramble after I forget  
>>> to
>>> get out the hook.  Now the first mate just has to reach over and pick  
>>> up
>>> the rope.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think!
>>>
>>>
>>> Turk
>>> Miss Kitty Kitty
>>> Canfield, Ohio
>>> #3520   Cat 1974
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> --------------
>>> For information on unsubscribing or contacting the list owner, go to:
>>> www.chipford.com/list_instructs.htm
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>Tom T
>

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From: David Devine <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:16:36 -0600

The Chatham (MA) harbormaster specifies a 150# anchor for a 22' vessel.

Dave Devine
Bradford, Mass.
Sailing port: Pleasant Bay - Cape Cod
1977 C-22 Swing keel #5812 "Advent"

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:07 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Catalina22] Mooring ball and Dinghy

TurK, Chip, Baynard, other listers on a mooring:

What is the proper size / method of the anchor of the mooring ball?

-- 
Dan Schafer
Traverse City, MI
"SeaBatical"
1983 Swing Keel~#11577

turk <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Thanks Dan
>
>I appreciate the comment.  There are too many things in this world that
>get in the way of the things that really matter. I look at you and
>other members of this list as friends.  We can learn a lot from each
>other about sailing, but sometimes we can learn even more about
>ourselves if we treat each other with respect.
>
>As for the mooring bridle, I got the info from Bayard Gross.   The
>fiberglass tower should work well.  I can post some close up pictures
>of how I attached it to the mooring ball if you like.  You have to be
>carefull or you will split the hollow fiberglass.  I covered the glass
>with a piece of plastic tubing then filled it with plastic from a heat
>gun.   I have a special tool to wrap stainless wire and used it to
>attach a large eye screw to the mooring ring.  The rest will be shown
>in a picture or two to follow.  I have Bayard's post here somewhere.
>Ah, here it is :
>
>Chip and Turk:
> 
>I have had my 1981 model C-22 (#9911) on a mooring in the summer for
>twelve years.
> 
>I found that it really pays to do things myself for setting up a
>mooring for a C-22, especially for the pennant and/or bridle, which is
>(or are) the lines leading from the “ball” to the boat.
> 
>I will only address the pennant and/or bridle.  I own my mooring, and
>there are other matters regarding things from winterization, to
>inspection, to chain and underwater lines employed that I could get
>into, but perhaps that is for another time.
> 
>Let’s start that we have a float or ball with a metal ring and we need
>to affix lines from that ring to the two C-22 bow cleats, the black
>ones as seen on page 16 of Chip’s web site, which are exactly like
>mine.
> 
>After experimentation and several years of experience, I feel the ideal
>length for lines from a float or ball to the bow cleats on a C-22
>should be about 6 feet, give or take a few inches.  I have tried
>longer, I have tried shorter, and I feel very strongly that 6 feet is
>perfect.  I realize there are some who will argue about that length,
>but I assure you, many years experience has proven this wise.
> 
>The next issue is weather to have two 6 foot lines with eyes come off
>the ring at the ball or to use a single line from the ball that is then
>split into two ends with eyes to create a bridle.  My feeling is that a
>bridle will more evenly distribute the load to the two cleats than
>separate lines.  The nature of things is that separate lines will
>undoubtedly be of unequal length.  As such, one line will always pull
>harder than the other putting more stress onto its particular cleat. 
>With a bridle, while the line eyes may not be perfectly equally distant
>from the ball ring, the load is ultimately transferred to a single line
>going to the ball ring and as such will exert a more uniform pull on
>the two cleats.
> 
>The general design for a bridle is a three strand line with a metal
>thimble end at the end that attaches to the ball ring which can be
>either on top or below the ball.  A shackle, properly wired, is secured
>between this eye and the ball ring.  At the other end of this three
>strand line there is an eye that is secured to one of the vessel's
>cleats.  About midway between the thimble eye and the cleat eye, a
>second piece of three strand line is spliced (conceptually as
>interwoven) into this first line.  At the end of this second line there
>is an eye splice that is put through the other cleat.  The two eye
>splices when pulled tight against the thimble eye should be equidistant
>from the thimble eye therefore providing as much of an equal pull as
>possible.
> 
>Nevertheless, for use on C-22 cleats, as well as many other vessels,
>there is an inherent disadvantage in employing this three strand twist
>rope bridle.  To properly affix an eye to a cleat (assuming an open
>base and for a c-22 at least eight inch eyes), the eye should be passed
>through the hole in the base and then brought up and over and looped
>onto the horns.  (An alternative, which requires a very large eye, is
>to loop the eye over the horns, then lay one side over the other
>creating a loop or bight that is brought up and over onto the horns. 
>Since one will rarely find eyes large enough to perform this, it is
>almost nonsensical to remember this.)
> 
>For C-22 cleats, this means that the tree strand line cannot be any
>larger than about 3/8 inch diameter.  Larger than 3/8 inch diameter,
>and the eye will not pass through the base of the cleat.  Been there,
>done that.  For coming off the bow, two 3/8 inch three strand lines are
>quite sufficient.  But as these two 3/8 inch lines become one 3/8 inch
>line, the metal thimble at the end of the line does not have enough
>heft and materiel to survive a summer in salt water.  While a stainless
>steel thimble, as opposed to a galvanized thimble (which these days are
>often imported and of poor quality), could be used, the 3/8 inch line
>itself after a season’s use will be so tired and dirty, that one will
>need to replace the entire bridle.
> 
>An alternative is to use a line about 13 feet with eyes at each end
>skipping the thimble.  The middle of this is secured to a shackle with
>a cow hitch, or preferably a clove hitch.  The shackle is put on the
>ball ring.  The cow hitch will become loose and the shackle will chafe
>the line.  The clove hitch will stay tight longer, but it too may
>loosen to where the metal shackle chafes the line.  Hence, I do not
>like this method.
> 
>Switching to larger ½ inch three strand line, will provide a thimble
>that will successfully survive the summer, and possibly part of the
>following season but, of course, the eyes will not pass through the bow
>cleats.  Even with say eighteen inch eyes and using the alternative
>cleat method described above, one will probably not successfully secure
>the eyes to the cleats as the ½ inch line will not rest well on the
>horns.
> 
>Besides three strand twist rope, there is braided rope, both single and
>double braided.  (There is also braided rope that is akin to both three
>strand twist and braided rope.  As I have no experience in this style
>rope, I will not discuss it here.)  As we need rope for a mooring that
>has good UV resistance, wear, and strength, I will discuss only use
>with double braided line, leaving single braided line to performance
>oriented running rigging.  The general advantage of double braided rope
>over three strand twist rope is that is much more pliable.  In fact,
>the eye splice of ½ inch double braided rope may even pass through the
>base of a C-22 cleat, not to mention, that it can probably perform the
>alternative cleat method with big enough eyes.
>   
>However, I have not found a fashion by which double braided rope can be
>made into a bridle like three strand twist.  This means one would then
>need to make a pennant about 12 feet and attach it to a shackle with a
>clove hitch or a cow hitch and the shackle to the ball ring as
>described above.  This, as mentioned, will expose the line to chafing
>from the shackle, and thereby, is not considered good practice.
> 
>My solution is a combination of three strand twist and double braided
>rope. 
>   
>For attachment to the ball ring I use ½ inch three strand twist with a
>metal thimble eye and then another eye of about the same diameter as
>the thimble eye at the other end.  From the inside of the two eyes this
>line is about three feet.  This line is fairly easy to construct and
>the thimble should last at least a summer season.  Further, as this
>part of the pennant will drag in the water during slack periods, it
>will become dirty and covered with barnacles, crabs, mussels, and
>slime.  However, it is reasonably economical and easy to replace
>annually, and I think one should do that.
> 
>For the other three feet of the pennant, I construct, with 3/8 inch
>double braided rope, a line with two 8 to 12 inch eyes at each end (the
>horns on the Catalina cleats are about 7 inches wide as I recall). 
>This line is about seven feet from the outermost eye end to the other. 
>Seven feet is necessary to achieve a length of three feet away from the
>three strand twist eye since one needs compensation for the clove hitch
>and wrap onto the cleats.  This with the three feet of three strand
>twist line produces the overall 6 foot pennant.  This line I bend onto
>the eye of the three strand line with a clove hitch which with its two
>eye ends come away equidistantly from the clove hitch.  As this is a
>rope to rope connection, the issue of chafe is almost nil.  The clove
>hitch stays tight on the three strand twist rope eye as this is softer
>and more pliable than a metal shackle or ring.
>   
>The eyes pass well through the cleat bases, which are just like Chip’s,
>and then the eye is brought up and over onto the horns.  In essence I
>achieve the benefits of ½ inch line with a metal thimble on the ball
>ring, 3/8 inch double braided line in the cleats, and a bridle all in
>one.
> 
>The double braided line secured to the cleats on a C-22 will not
>chafe.  In fact, I have used this same double braided line on my vessel
>for at least six years with barely even negligible wear.  About the
>only area that has shown any wear is in the clove hitch.
> 
>As making eyes in double braided rope is difficult, as well as the rope
>costing more than three strand twist rope, the ability to use this line
>for many, many years is quite advantageous.  One only replaces the
>lower part of the pennant which is less expensive and much easier to
>construct.
> 
>But wait there is more!, as the commercials say.
> 
>If you are to make up a second of these double braided lines with the
>two eyes, you then have a means to use the bow cleats to secure to
>temporary moorings and to your anchor rode.  For temporary moorings,
>bend the double braided line with a cow hitch onto the eye of the
>pennant of the temporary mooring.  A cow hitch is fine for this
>temporary set up.  For the anchor rode, make a slip knot in the anchor
>rode with the end attached to the anchor pulling the slip knot big
>smaller.  Bend the double braided line onto the big of the slip knot. 
>The double braided line with the cow hitch keeps the slip knot from
>collapsing.  This arrangement should be fine for temporary anchoring.
>   
>And the big bonus here is that Chip Ford can get rid of those awful
>chucks and that toe and knee mashing deck cleat that mess up the very
>smooth lines of a C-22. 
>   
>It is far easier and better to modify rope and lines to match your
>boat, rather than modifying your boat to match ropes and lines.
> 
>Hope this is helpful.
> 
>I realize both Chip and Turk are “on the hard” now, but I will still
>wish them wind behind their backs as this is a lot warmer than facing
>it right on and helps push you through the snow.
> 
>Bayard Gross
>C-22 #9911
>Baby Blue
>Greenwich, CT
>
>Hope this helps
>
>Turk
>Miss Kitty
>
>
>
>> I'd like to respond to your mooring solution and dinghy painting...
>> but first, some unfinished business. A week or so ago, we had a
>> misunderstanding about how I was collecting feedback on my
>> SeaBatical's new website.  You offered a heart-felt apology for some
>> of the things that you had said.  I never did get a chance to thank
>> you for taking the high road .... I knew sailors were a good lot, and
>> you've reaffirmed that.
>>
>> Now ... for your new projects.  I plan to put SeaBatical on a mooring
>> as well for most of this summer.  I don't know much about all the ins
>> and outs, but have read as much as I can about various approaches.
>> Yours is well thought out in all aspects.  Did Baynard offer his
>> expertise directly to you... or did I miss a post?  What kind of
>> anchor to you have at the bottom of that mooring ball?  I'm gonna have
>> to make the same setup you have there [I even have a long fiberglass
>> pole from an old golf course flag].  Hope you can answer any questions
>> I have as I start to construct it.
>>

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From: "Ashley, Miles H, WCS" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:44:55 -0600

I made a 480# sectional mooring point for my boat, that parts into 4, 120# sections.  The rest of the ground tackle for the mooring point is standard, right out of the book.  

The mooring anchor is made of 4, 6"X18"X18" concrete blocks I poured with an X of rebar in the middle of the block to the corners. To create the block, I created a form of 2"X6" wood, and scrap ply for the bottom.  The box is filled with 2 bags (60#) of Sacrete and poured with the rebar placed near but off the bottom and the connecting chain centered in the form.  The rebar passes through the lowest 2 links of the short connecting piece of 18" X 3/8" galvanized chain. The chain is held up out of the concrete near the center of the top of the block until the concrete is set.

The four sections are laid on the bottom side by side and interconnected with a 5" X 3/8" SS bold and aircraft nut to the dropper/swivels, etc.  I've moved this unit seasonally by disconnecting the ss bolt that ties the 4 anchor pieces together and to the dropper chain, and have never had any problems in disengaging the anchors from the mucky bottom.  Underwater, the anchor sections move fairly easily, but when connected together, their movement will tend to dig in on the multiple edges towards the pulling force.  I've weathered quite a few bad wind storms over the last 3 years using this setup, some of them with 50+ mph winds and several hurricanes including Isabel.  I did have some ice movement of the anchor this past winter, but nothing else.

If any one wants further information on how to create heavy movable mooring points, I can give greater directions.

Captain  Miles  Ashley
Hull # 940 - Swing Keel
'72   C-22    Dragonass   
Chincoteague Island, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David Devine
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:17 AM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] Mooring ball and Dinghy

Dave Devine
Bradford, Mass.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:07 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Catalina22] Mooring ball and Dinghy

-- 
Dan Schafer
Traverse City, MI
"SeaBatical"
1983 Swing Keel~#11577

turk <[email-masked]> wrote:

>(or are) the lines leading from the "ball" to the boat.
> 
>Let's start that we have a float or ball with a metal ring and we need
>ones as seen on page 16 of Chip's web site, which are exactly like
>mine.
> 
>itself after a season's use will be so tired and dirty, that one will
>The eyes pass well through the cleat bases, which are just like Chip's,
>I realize both Chip and Turk are "on the hard" now, but I will still