Subject: [AthofSV] Argus Newspaper LTE 3/7/05

From: "David M. Mandell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:50:16 -0800 (PST)

Printed in the Fremont, CA. Argus Newspaper March 7, 2005
 
                                          Insulted
 
    I agree with The Argus Feb. 23 editorial, "Thou shalt not go overboard." that the Pleasanton lawyer is nitpicking about removing the Ten Commandments from a seal.
 
    However a massive stone copy of the Ten Commandments in Texas ( "Justices hear Ten Commandments cases," ) March 3 is another matter.  To subject atheists to this religious monument is disgusting. To have my tax dollars support any religious symbol on public property is a rip-off and insulting. The stone Decalogue on public property amounts to a governmental imposition of monotheism.
 
    I'm sick and tired of religionists sneaking around the First Amendment to get their demented messages to the public.
 
    It's just too bad that religion is on a decline in the United States. I guess people are getting too smart to believe that religious brain-washing rhetoric anymore. Well good for them.  Religion has caused more suffering and pain than any other man-made idea.
 
David M. Mandell
Fremont, CA.

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---

From: "earthboundje" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:49:56 -0000

You know, I just did a report on linguistics in the media based on 
George Lakoff's speech in Kensington last Friday.  His conclusion 
was that it would be really easy for liberals to start framing their 
values and arguments just as the Republicans do.  

My observation is that the reason why liberals DON'T engage in 
framing it because it's dishonest, manipulative and negates the 
bigger picture. 

What I did conclude in this assignment, however, was that 
progressive (not liberal, OKAY!) institutions (for example, NPR) 
have been literally fighting the abuses of Republicans since their 
inception (in NPR's case Nixon was a real prick)... but these fights 
took place long term.  They took place just by surviving and staying 
the course of their own identity, staying true to their own moral 
judgement, and whenever possible, to not only ask for help, but to 
FRAME that request in the most sincere and convincing light.  I'll 
give you THE BEST example:

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/misc/fred-rogers/

Mister Rogers made a hardened Congressman cry, and not by being a 
prick.  More or less, that's your goal.  =)

For more research into political framing and attacking issues I 
totally recommend Lakoff's short but condensed book Don't Think of 
an Elephant, and I'll post his speech when it comes out.  He agreed 
to do an interview with me for KZSC as well.  Stay tuned!

- Jonathan

PS - The leaders of local atheist groups have taught me a thing or 
two about resilience and values as well.  

--- In [email-masked], TampaBayAtheist@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/8/2005 12:51:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> IsaacJBS2@e... writes:
> ..it demonstrates to some just how evil and petty atheists (in 
their eyes) 
> can be.  Yeah, he was right--and maybe the more important stuff we 
can't win 
> on--but I wonder if some are picking their battles wisely or not.  
Thoughts?
> 
> Hi from Florida: 
> 
> An atheist from my local group had this to say during one of our 
discussions 
> on the same topic:
> 
> "We simply need to be as aggressive as the Hannitys, O'Reillys, et 
al, in 
> calling them what they are - neo-fascist liars, and we also need 
to be as 
> uncompromising as they in their polemical and debating tactics. "
> 
> I think it is a mistake to fall into the "nice atheist" trap. The 
theocrats 
> are pushing their agenda and we need to push back.
> 
> Well, that's my two cents. -Linda P.

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:07:23 EST

I just read the Mister Rogers thing.  It was great.  Thanks,  Jonathan.
Jim Heldberg