Subject: Re: [Catalina22] Mooring ball and Dinghy

From: turk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:51:30 -0500

Thanks Dan

I appreciate the comment.  There are too many things in this world that  
get in the way of the things that really matter. I look at you and  
other members of this list as friends.  We can learn a lot from each  
other about sailing, but sometimes we can learn even more about  
ourselves if we treat each other with respect.

As for the mooring bridle, I got the info from Bayard Gross.   The  
fiberglass tower should work well.  I can post some close up pictures  
of how I attached it to the mooring ball if you like.  You have to be  
carefull or you will split the hollow fiberglass.  I covered the glass  
with a piece of plastic tubing then filled it with plastic from a heat  
gun.   I have a special tool to wrap stainless wire and used it to  
attach a large eye screw to the mooring ring.  The rest will be shown  
in a picture or two to follow.  I have Bayard's post here somewhere.   
Ah, here it is :

Chip and Turk:
 
I have had my 1981 model C-22 (#9911) on a mooring in the summer for  
twelve years.
 
I found that it really pays to do things myself for setting up a  
mooring for a C-22, especially for the pennant and/or bridle, which is  
(or are) the lines leading from the “ball” to the boat.
 
I will only address the pennant and/or bridle.  I own my mooring, and  
there are other matters regarding things from winterization, to  
inspection, to chain and underwater lines employed that I could get  
into, but perhaps that is for another time.
 
Let’s start that we have a float or ball with a metal ring and we need  
to affix lines from that ring to the two C-22 bow cleats, the black  
ones as seen on page 16 of Chip’s web site, which are exactly like  
mine.
 
After experimentation and several years of experience, I feel the ideal  
length for lines from a float or ball to the bow cleats on a C-22  
should be about 6 feet, give or take a few inches.  I have tried  
longer, I have tried shorter, and I feel very strongly that 6 feet is  
perfect.  I realize there are some who will argue about that length,  
but I assure you, many years experience has proven this wise.
 
The next issue is weather to have two 6 foot lines with eyes come off  
the ring at the ball or to use a single line from the ball that is then  
split into two ends with eyes to create a bridle.  My feeling is that a  
bridle will more evenly distribute the load to the two cleats than  
separate lines.  The nature of things is that separate lines will  
undoubtedly be of unequal length.  As such, one line will always pull  
harder than the other putting more stress onto its particular cleat.   
With a bridle, while the line eyes may not be perfectly equally distant  
from the ball ring, the load is ultimately transferred to a single line  
going to the ball ring and as such will exert a more uniform pull on  
the two cleats.
 
The general design for a bridle is a three strand line with a metal  
thimble end at the end that attaches to the ball ring which can be  
either on top or below the ball.  A shackle, properly wired, is secured  
between this eye and the ball ring.  At the other end of this three  
strand line there is an eye that is secured to one of the vessel's  
cleats.  About midway between the thimble eye and the cleat eye, a  
second piece of three strand line is spliced (conceptually as  
interwoven) into this first line.  At the end of this second line there  
is an eye splice that is put through the other cleat.  The two eye  
splices when pulled tight against the thimble eye should be equidistant  
from the thimble eye therefore providing as much of an equal pull as  
possible.
 
Nevertheless, for use on C-22 cleats, as well as many other vessels,  
there is an inherent disadvantage in employing this three strand twist  
rope bridle.  To properly affix an eye to a cleat (assuming an open  
base and for a c-22 at least eight inch eyes), the eye should be passed  
through the hole in the base and then brought up and over and looped  
onto the horns.  (An alternative, which requires a very large eye, is  
to loop the eye over the horns, then lay one side over the other  
creating a loop or bight that is brought up and over onto the horns.   
Since one will rarely find eyes large enough to perform this, it is  
almost nonsensical to remember this.)
 
For C-22 cleats, this means that the tree strand line cannot be any  
larger than about 3/8 inch diameter.  Larger than 3/8 inch diameter,  
and the eye will not pass through the base of the cleat.  Been there,  
done that.  For coming off the bow, two 3/8 inch three strand lines are  
quite sufficient.  But as these two 3/8 inch lines become one 3/8 inch  
line, the metal thimble at the end of the line does not have enough  
heft and materiel to survive a summer in salt water.  While a stainless  
steel thimble, as opposed to a galvanized thimble (which these days are  
often imported and of poor quality), could be used, the 3/8 inch line  
itself after a season’s use will be so tired and dirty, that one will  
need to replace the entire bridle.
 
An alternative is to use a line about 13 feet with eyes at each end  
skipping the thimble.  The middle of this is secured to a shackle with  
a cow hitch, or preferably a clove hitch.  The shackle is put on the  
ball ring.  The cow hitch will become loose and the shackle will chafe  
the line.  The clove hitch will stay tight longer, but it too may  
loosen to where the metal shackle chafes the line.  Hence, I do not  
like this method.
 
Switching to larger ½ inch three strand line, will provide a thimble  
that will successfully survive the summer, and possibly part of the  
following season but, of course, the eyes will not pass through the bow  
cleats.  Even with say eighteen inch eyes and using the alternative  
cleat method described above, one will probably not successfully secure  
the eyes to the cleats as the ½ inch line will not rest well on the  
horns.
 
Besides three strand twist rope, there is braided rope, both single and  
double braided.  (There is also braided rope that is akin to both three  
strand twist and braided rope.  As I have no experience in this style  
rope, I will not discuss it here.)  As we need rope for a mooring that  
has good UV resistance, wear, and strength, I will discuss only use  
with double braided line, leaving single braided line to performance  
oriented running rigging.  The general advantage of double braided rope  
over three strand twist rope is that is much more pliable.  In fact,  
the eye splice of ½ inch double braided rope may even pass through the  
base of a C-22 cleat, not to mention, that it can probably perform the  
alternative cleat method with big enough eyes.
   
However, I have not found a fashion by which double braided rope can be  
made into a bridle like three strand twist.  This means one would then  
need to make a pennant about 12 feet and attach it to a shackle with a  
clove hitch or a cow hitch and the shackle to the ball ring as  
described above.  This, as mentioned, will expose the line to chafing  
from the shackle, and thereby, is not considered good practice.
 
My solution is a combination of three strand twist and double braided  
rope. 
   
For attachment to the ball ring I use ½ inch three strand twist with a  
metal thimble eye and then another eye of about the same diameter as  
the thimble eye at the other end.  From the inside of the two eyes this  
line is about three feet.  This line is fairly easy to construct and  
the thimble should last at least a summer season.  Further, as this  
part of the pennant will drag in the water during slack periods, it  
will become dirty and covered with barnacles, crabs, mussels, and  
slime.  However, it is reasonably economical and easy to replace  
annually, and I think one should do that.
 
For the other three feet of the pennant, I construct, with 3/8 inch  
double braided rope, a line with two 8 to 12 inch eyes at each end (the  
horns on the Catalina cleats are about 7 inches wide as I recall).   
This line is about seven feet from the outermost eye end to the other.   
Seven feet is necessary to achieve a length of three feet away from the  
three strand twist eye since one needs compensation for the clove hitch  
and wrap onto the cleats.  This with the three feet of three strand  
twist line produces the overall 6 foot pennant.  This line I bend onto  
the eye of the three strand line with a clove hitch which with its two  
eye ends come away equidistantly from the clove hitch.  As this is a  
rope to rope connection, the issue of chafe is almost nil.  The clove  
hitch stays tight on the three strand twist rope eye as this is softer  
and more pliable than a metal shackle or ring.
   
The eyes pass well through the cleat bases, which are just like Chip’s,  
and then the eye is brought up and over onto the horns.  In essence I  
achieve the benefits of ½ inch line with a metal thimble on the ball  
ring, 3/8 inch double braided line in the cleats, and a bridle all in  
one.
 
The double braided line secured to the cleats on a C-22 will not  
chafe.  In fact, I have used this same double braided line on my vessel  
for at least six years with barely even negligible wear.  About the  
only area that has shown any wear is in the clove hitch.
 
As making eyes in double braided rope is difficult, as well as the rope  
costing more than three strand twist rope, the ability to use this line  
for many, many years is quite advantageous.  One only replaces the  
lower part of the pennant which is less expensive and much easier to  
construct.
 
But wait there is more!, as the commercials say.
 
If you are to make up a second of these double braided lines with the  
two eyes, you then have a means to use the bow cleats to secure to  
temporary moorings and to your anchor rode.  For temporary moorings,  
bend the double braided line with a cow hitch onto the eye of the  
pennant of the temporary mooring.  A cow hitch is fine for this  
temporary set up.  For the anchor rode, make a slip knot in the anchor  
rode with the end attached to the anchor pulling the slip knot big  
smaller.  Bend the double braided line onto the big of the slip knot.   
The double braided line with the cow hitch keeps the slip knot from  
collapsing.  This arrangement should be fine for temporary anchoring.
   
And the big bonus here is that Chip Ford can get rid of those awful  
chucks and that toe and knee mashing deck cleat that mess up the very  
smooth lines of a C-22. 
   
It is far easier and better to modify rope and lines to match your  
boat, rather than modifying your boat to match ropes and lines.
 
Hope this is helpful.
 
I realize both Chip and Turk are “on the hard” now, but I will still  
wish them wind behind their backs as this is a lot warmer than facing  
it right on and helps push you through the snow.
 
Bayard Gross
C-22 #9911
Baby Blue
Greenwich, CT

Hope this helps

Turk
Miss Kitty

On Mar 15, 2005, at 2:53 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Turk~
>
> I'd like to respond to your mooring solution and dinghy painting...  
> but first, some unfinished business. A week or so ago, we had a  
> misunderstanding about how I was collecting feedback on my  
> SeaBatical's new website.  You offered a heart-felt apology for some  
> of the things that you had said.  I never did get a chance to thank  
> you for taking the high road .... I knew sailors were a good lot, and  
> you've reaffirmed that.
>
> Now ... for your new projects.  I plan to put SeaBatical on a mooring  
> as well for most of this summer.  I don't know much about all the ins  
> and outs, but have read as much as I can about various approaches.   
> Yours is well thought out in all aspects.  Did Baynard offer his  
> expertise directly to you... or did I miss a post?  What kind of  
> anchor to you have at the bottom of that mooring ball?  I'm gonna have  
> to make the same setup you have there [I even have a long fiberglass  
> pole from an old golf course flag].  Hope you can answer any questions  
> I have as I start to construct it.
>
> The dinghy looks very good ... how old is that inflatable?
>
>
> --  
> Dan Schafer
> Traverse City, MI
> "SeaBatical"
> 1983 Swing Keel~#11577
>
>
> Turk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> As one project gets finished I would like to show all the new mooring
>> bridle (thanks to Baylard's instructions) and the new flooring (well,
>> painted with 3 coats of polyurethan paint) in my Dinghy.  The bridle
>> uses 3/4 3 line rope with one galvanized steel thimbull for the
>> attachment to the underside of the ball, and another plain spliced eye
>> to run the double braided line to.  I am considering splitting that  
>> line
>> and making 2 knots to the triple braided line just for security
>> reasons.  If one line were to break, the other would not get untied.
>>
>> http://www.elmhurstprop.com/mooring/index.htm
>>
>>
>> The mast you see on the mooring ball is a new invention (well, I
>> actually stole the idea from another manufacturer) that allows me to
>> point the nose to the mooring ball and actually see where it is at  
>> (the
>> red ball on top) as the first mate picks up the the bridle and hooks  
>> on
>> to the cleats.  The weight of the chain should keep the mast up (light
>> weight fiberglass fishing pole) and keep it quite vertical with the  
>> rope
>> hung on it.
>>
>> I guess I'm looking for another solution than using the old boat hook.
>> I always pull into the mooring field and then scramble after I forget  
>> to
>> get out the hook.  Now the first mate just has to reach over and pick  
>> up
>> the rope.
>>
>> Let me know what you think!
>>
>>
>> Turk
>> Miss Kitty Kitty
>> Canfield, Ohio
>> #3520   Cat 1974
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> --------------
>> For information on unsubscribing or contacting the list owner, go to:
>> www.chipford.com/list_instructs.htm
>>
>
>
>
>
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Tom T

---

From: turk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:28:16 -0500

Dan

Forgot to answer your last question!

The dinghy looks to be about 10 years old.  I found it on Ebay last  
winter.  The gentleman was from the upper New York area and in the  
auction said he would not ship.  Consequently very few bid on it and I  
got it for $300 and a long road trip (6 hours one way).  It was a great  
deal, included electric and manual pump, oars and repair kit.  It is a  
Seaworthy, one of Boat US's brands. I power it with a 2 1/2 hp merc  
outboard.  I also built a trailer for it to get it down to the  
launching ramp.  I don't believe I have pictures of the trailer - all  
aluminum for about $75.

turk
kitty

Tom T