Subject: RE: [Catalina22] For disscussion

From: "Chip Ford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 07:45:11 -0500

Before I launched this list on December 2, my "consortium
  of advisors" (Skip Meisch, Hobie Davidson, and Dick King)
  among other considerations discussed contributions to a
  degree. Hobie (is the Pirate still in the process of moving?)
  insisted that my cost was only one factor; that my time was
  another to consider. Initially I thought it was a good idea
  and added a page to the Chip Ahoy website's list section.
  (See:  <http://www.chipford.com/contribs.htm>
http://www.chipford.com/contribs.htm)
 
  But I quickly decided to hold off accepting contributions
  until I was sure the list would fly. I didn't want to take
  anyone's money with their expectation that the list would
  be ongoing until I was sure that in fact it would succeed
  and actually be ongoing.
 
  After the four of us, Victor Kuhl signed up, followed by
  Dan Keagle, Cliff Willoz, Turk Terleski, Pete Kover, Bill
  O'Brien ... by the end of the first month we were up to 77
  subscribers, exceeding my best expectations! Today we're at
  121 and still growing: Dana Shields joined us just yesterday.
 
  I'd forgotten the contributions page until now. I've just
  "reactivated" it, but all contributions should be purely
  voluntary. This list doesn't cost much to maintain
  financially; time is another matter as the list grows in
  membership. (e.g., see yesterday's "admin" message.) While
  it requires more time administering it than I'd anticipated,
  taking the project on was my decision and I've got no
  regrets. I personally appreciate the simple factor of
  security and not being buried with spam/virus attacks that
  otherwise could be (and probably to a degree still are as
  residue from the other list). And I'm gratified that it's
  succeeded!
 
  As for the Chip Ahoy website: I don't consider that a
  cost anyone else should bear, as I had it before the
  list and intend to keep it as long as I have Chip Ahoy,
  for the foreseeable future. While I've spent some
  additional time on the pages dedicated to this list (ie.,
  the "List Members, In Their Own Words" page -- which also
  reminds me, how's that coming with getting me your bios
  and photo?), it hasn't cost me anything more than it
  would have without this list.
 
  So if anyone wants to make a contribution, just go to:
 <http://www.chipford.com/contribs.htm>
http://www.chipford.com/contribs.htm for instructions how.
 
  Thanks for the support everyone, especially Baynard for
  his thoughtful consideration, and Bob Sparks, who called
  from Louisianna yesterday asking to send a contribution.
  What a group!
  Chip Ford --
  Marblehead, Mass.
  781-639-9709
  1974 Catalina 22 Swing Keel #3282 - "Chip Ahoy"
  Chip Ahoy website:  www.chipford.com
   <http://www.chipford.com/list_members.htm#Chip_Ford>
http://www.chipford.com/list_members.htm#Chip_Ford 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:07 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Catalina22] For disscussion

Dear Chip et al:
 
My understanding is Chip's "cash" expense for running the site is about four
hundred dollars per year.
 
This is a significant expense and list members should bear it in part.
After all, unlike other list sites, such as Sailnet and Catalina Direct,
which have stores attached and as such hope to recoup their list expenses
with store sales, Chip has none.  In fact Chip doesn't even have any
daughters or an alimony collecting ex-wife that he is trying to marry off,
although at some point, he may have a boat to sale.
 
While someone by him or her self could make a single contribution toward
this expense, I do not believe this would be in the overall spirit of the
entity.  I feel that gaining a smaller amount from several or many members
that will keep the site more as an "our" site rather than as a "my" site is
a wiser direction.  However, as Chip is and for practicable purposes must be
the sole administrator of the site, I do not wish to alter Chip's single
authority and operation of the site.
 
Nevertheless, the next issue becomes what is an appropriate amount for list
members to support this list along with what would be acceptable for Chip to
receive, I assume, by check in the mail.  A hundred members sending in four
dollar checks while covering the expenses, would, of course, be an
administrative nightmare for Chip.  Therefore, I think the need is an amount
that is both large enough for Chip to bother with deposit while small enough
for humble Catalina 22 sailors.
 
So I come up with a range between ten and twenty-five dollars.  From a
purely mathematical approach, I list some possible scenarios of amounts in
this range:
 
at ten dollars, forty list members would contribute four hundred dollars
 
at fifteen dollars, twenty-seven members would contribute four hundred and
five dollars
 
at twenty dollars, twenty members would contribute four hundred dollars
 
at twenty-five dollars, sixteen members would contribute four hundred
dollars
 
I personally lean toward twenty dollars.  However, I think that leaving this
up to discussion is best with final decision by Chip as he will administer
this activity.
 
For legal and liability purposes, I would use twenty dollars or less as
derived from Article Seven of the Bill of Rights, although we (the people)
have not adjusted this for inflation since its ratification on December 15,
1791.
 
Using an amount between ten and twenty-five dollars means that not everyone
on the list needs to send a check to Chip.  This provides a necessary break
for those struggling to put sons and daughters through college, those
experiencing high medical bills, and those currently down on their luck.
Moreover, not everyone on the list should send a check to Chip as I feel a
potential animosity would arise toward our gracious site provider were he to
get $2,000 through collecting twenty-dollars from each of one hundred
members.  While I feel Chip's efforts deserve this, I do not think the
intention here is to reward Chip financially, but courteously to make him
whole.
 
Further, if Chip and we adopt such a scheme, I think Chip need only provide
a simple general thank you to list members who send him a check.  I think we
should avoid a list of "sponsoring" members as this may create a two tiered
society.  I personally feel the willingness of list members to share their
information and experiences are of greater value than financial payment.
Nevertheless, perhaps a list with boat names would execute a good
compromise.
 
So what say you list members?  I think we first need some response to how
many are willing to pay what amount and when.  Remember, at this point it is
only a discussion.  I do not think we should construe any statements as
obligatory nor promissory.  However, information is necessary to derive a
viable and widely accepted plan as it is only fair for us to share part of
the financial burden with Chip.
 
Besides, with climatic conditions being what they are in New England, Chip
probably cannot get on his boat anytime soon.  He will really need something
to do like open envelopes and deposit checks.
 
Bayard Gross
C-22 #9911
Baby Blue
Greenwich, CT