Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

From: "Dennis, Jim" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:37:57 -0500

Miles and Chip, thank you for your responses.
 
Miles,
 
That sounds like a great place to kayak.  Until I feel comfortable about
bobbing around in a big trashcan, I think I will stick to the nice, flat
Alum Creek and Hoover reservoirs.

Chip,
 
A while back you had mentioned that you sail in the St. Lawrence River, so I
had to lookup on Mapquest just where Dexter was.  Ah yes, God's country.  I
grew up north of you, in a little town between Massena and Potsdam.  If we
wanted something other than McDonald's or Domino's we would have to drive to
Canada.  We were probably in the car for two hours before we got to
Watertown.  It was a really fun place to be a kid, you could do anything and
mom never worried about you.
 
I bought a Wilderness Systems Pamlico 100 kayak.  It has this hatch in the
back, kind of like a rubber tupperware lid.  It just opens to the hull which
is open to the cockpit, so there is no protection from water at all.  I was
thinking of building some sort of bulkhead to protect my stuff.  Is there
any reason I should not?
 
I am surprised the store did not try to sell me some of these things you
mentioned.  
 
Does the 'paddle float' just keep the paddle floating (which I would have
guessed was intrinsically buoyant) or is it used to help me get the boat
righted?
 
Thanks again for your help.
Jim
Columbus, Ohio

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Charles S. Lee
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:49 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

Jim,

Sorry, I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread, even though
I kayak a fair amount.

1.	You do not have to expect to get wet, but you should be prepared,
nonetheless. Always wear a life jacket, especially near powerboat traffic,
since they can swamp you if you don't see the wake coming. Best way to take
a wake is head on. Many of the recreational kayaks have nonstandard cockpit
dimensions, but some of the manufacturers offer splash skirts for
recreational kayaks. The true sea kayaks usually have a standard size
cockpit, so you can use any manufacturer's skirt for that size. Splash
skirts on recreational kayaks help keep you warm and dry, but don't usually
stay on if you roll, so you can't "eskimo roll" back upright. These kayaks
are too wide for that maneuver anyways, so you wind up doing a wet exit,
pulling the skirt away from the cockpit coaming and swimming out of the
boat. 

2.	Purchase two items for safety and lash them to the deck: 1) a paddle
float, which looks like the inflatable "swimmy" that kids put on their arms
to help them float; 2) a kayak bilge pump, which is usually shorter and
fatter than a regular hand bilge pump. This pump also has a foam collar so
it floats if it gets away from you when capsized. 

You can go to any kayak store and they will show you how to put the float on
your paddle, and then use the paddle as an outrigger to get you back on
board. Once in the swamped boat, the paddle float helps keep you stable
while you pump out the boat. Buying an inflatable flotation bag for the bow
and stern also takes up volume and prevents having to pump extra gallons
from the boat when you right it.

Finally, if your boat doesn't have one, have the dealer install a drain plug
at the tip of the bow or stern. This helps you get the last of the water out
of the boat.

There - I've just added about $100 to the purchase of your first kayak. But
most Catalina owners can look at this stuff in the kayak store, listen to
what the salesperson says, and then go home to make their own floats, pumps
and plugs for a lot less.

Chip Lee

#9742 Martha Pearl

1980 C22 swing keel

Dexter, NY

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Dennis, Jim
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:00 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

Okay, all this talk about kayaks made me think, so I went to the local
sporting goods store this weekend and they were having a sale...  so now I
am the proud owner of an expensive piece of orange plastic (bright orange so
that the power boaters will be less likely to drive over me).

I figure it is a half-hour to get to my C-22 and often it will be windy at
my house and not at the lake and vice-versa.  So, if I drag along the kayak,
it would not be a wasted trip, plus it would be good exercise.

I have two general kayak questions:

1.  Is this a sport where every time you go out you should expect to get
wet?  It is still pretty cold in Ohio and I don't know if I should try it in
the next week or wait until the water warms up.

2.  If you capsize:

        A.  How do you bail the water out?

        B.  What is the right way to get back in?

Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Ashley, Miles H, WCS
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:37 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] kayak

Since you're considering a rigid Kayak, I've been using and towing a 12'
Poke Boat with great success.  Check out their products at www.pokeboat.com
<http://www.pokeboat.com>  .  I've had mine since 1992.  I went to the
Factory in Berea KY and picked it up.  Weighs under 30#, so it is easy to
pick it up and toss around.  It is also very stable compared to a canoe.  I
run with Sea Kayaks often, and because of the light weight, I can keep up
with the leaders with no extra effort.  The bow shape causes me to use a
spray skirt in chop, but the forward buoyancy is adequate for all of the
situations I've run into.  The Poke Boat tracks well when towed from the
forward rope carry handle, but I had to re-bed the rope once.  The mfg will
work with you on those type of issues if you tell them how you will be using
the boat when you order it.

Captain  Miles  Ashley
Hull # 940 - Swing Keel
'72   C-22    Dragonass  
Chincoteague Island, VA

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Dan & Bobbi Batchelor
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:14 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Catalina22] kayak

Thanks to Andre and Brian for your input regarding kayaks.  I have done
quite abit of research and feel a rigid plastic kayak will suit my needs.  I
plan on going to the Paddle Sport 2005 show on Saturday here in NJ.  I don't
think I will be able to transport a rigid kayak on a c22, but I can
certainly tow it behind so I can explore when we anchor.

Butchie
C22 Swing Keel
#13320 1986
"Sandy Bottoms"
Beachwood, NJ (Barnegat Bay)
http://home.comcast.net/~d.batch/ <http://home.comcast.net/~d.batch/>

---

From: "Charles S. Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:53:56 -0500

Hey Jim, are you a Norwood-Norfolk boy? Our camp is on the other side of
Potsdam, over in South Colton. Great country.too remote for much
trouble.

One of our kayaks is a Pamlico, too, the 14' model. Also open at both
ends, but no hatch. You can get a kit at the kayak store to make a
bulkhead, but it's cheaper to make your own. Go to a hardware or craft
store and get some stiff, closed-cell foam about 1" thick, and some
urethane sealant/adhesive. Cut the foam to fit the spot where you want
the bulkhead and seal on both sides of the bulkhead with the adhesive.
That's all there is to it. If you're careful with the adhesive, it will
be totally watertight. Then all you have to worry about is hatch leaks.

Regarding the paddle float, it's an inflatable doughnut that goes around
the blade of the paddle. Doesn't look like it would do much more that
float the paddle, but it actually provides a lot of flotation. If you
have bungee webbing on your foredeck or afterdeck, you simply slide one
blade of the paddle under the bungees and let the float on the other end
dangle in the water. If you have two-piece paddles, first remove the
offset so both blades are oriented the same way. Now what you basically
have is an outrigger canoe.

Enter the boat from the side with the outrigger by hoisting your body
across the foredeck just in front of the cockpit. Keep your center of
gravity real low if you don't want to stay wet! Once you are laying on
your stomach across the deck, you can pivot your feet around to the
cockpit, slide them in and sit upright.

Through all of this, try to keep your weight mostly on the outrigger
side. As soon as your weight crosses the centerline to the other side,
the boat wants to roll that way.

Once seated back in the boat, you can use the pump to get the water out.
I usually carry a car wash sponge to get the last of the water out.
After the boat is dry, pull the paddle out of the bungees, deflate the
paddle float and be on your way again.

Gee, this types so much easier than it feels in 50 degree water! I
practiced this at the beach in summer, but actually first used it on
Lake George in the fall when a powerboat surprised me. Definitely learn
to do it in warm water!!!!

Chip Lee

#9742 Martha Pearl

1980 C22 swing keel

Dexter, NY 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Dennis, Jim
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:38 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

Miles,

 

Chip,

A while back you had mentioned that you sail in the St. Lawrence River,
so I had to lookup on Mapquest just where Dexter was.  Ah yes, God's
country.  I grew up north of you, in a little town between Massena and
Potsdam.  If we wanted something other than McDonald's or Domino's we
would have to drive to Canada.  We were probably in the car for two
hours before we got to Watertown.  It was a really fun place to be a
kid, you could do anything and mom never worried about you.

I bought a Wilderness Systems Pamlico 100 kayak.  It has this hatch in
the back, kind of like a rubber tupperware lid.  It just opens to the
hull which is open to the cockpit, so there is no protection from water
at all.  I was thinking of building some sort of bulkhead to protect my
stuff.  Is there any reason I should not?

Does the 'paddle float' just keep the paddle floating (which I would
have guessed was intrinsically buoyant) or is it used to help me get the
boat righted?

Jim

Columbus, Ohio

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Charles S. Lee
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:49 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

Jim,

Sorry, I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread, even
though I kayak a fair amount.

1.      You do not have to expect to get wet, but you should be
prepared, nonetheless. Always wear a life jacket, especially near
powerboat traffic, since they can swamp you if you don't see the wake
coming. Best way to take a wake is head on. Many of the recreational
kayaks have nonstandard cockpit dimensions, but some of the
manufacturers offer splash skirts for recreational kayaks. The true sea
kayaks usually have a standard size cockpit, so you can use any
manufacturer's skirt for that size. Splash skirts on recreational kayaks
help keep you warm and dry, but don't usually stay on if you roll, so
you can't "eskimo roll" back upright. These kayaks are too wide for that
maneuver anyways, so you wind up doing a wet exit, pulling the skirt
away from the cockpit coaming and swimming out of the boat. 

2.      Purchase two items for safety and lash them to the deck: 1) a
paddle float, which looks like the inflatable "swimmy" that kids put on
their arms to help them float; 2) a kayak bilge pump, which is usually
shorter and fatter than a regular hand bilge pump. This pump also has a
foam collar so it floats if it gets away from you when capsized. 

You can go to any kayak store and they will show you how to put the
float on your paddle, and then use the paddle as an outrigger to get you
back on board. Once in the swamped boat, the paddle float helps keep you
stable  while you pump out the boat. Buying an inflatable flotation bag
for the bow and stern also takes up volume and prevents having to pump
extra gallons from the boat when you right it.

Finally, if your boat doesn't have one, have the dealer install a drain
plug at the tip of the bow or stern. This helps you get the last of the
water out of the boat.

There - I've just added about $100 to the purchase of your first kayak.
But most Catalina owners can look at this stuff in the kayak store,
listen to what the salesperson says, and then go home to make their own
floats, pumps and plugs for a lot less.

Chip Lee

#9742 Martha Pearl

1980 C22 swing keel

Dexter, NY

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Dennis, Jim
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:00 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] OT: Kayak

Okay, all this talk about kayaks made me think, so I went to the local
sporting goods store this weekend and they were having a sale...  so now
I am the proud owner of an expensive piece of orange plastic (bright
orange so that the power boaters will be less likely to drive over me).

I figure it is a half-hour to get to my C-22 and often it will be windy
at my house and not at the lake and vice-versa.  So, if I drag along the
kayak, it would not be a wasted trip, plus it would be good exercise.

1.  Is this a sport where every time you go out you should expect to get
wet?  It is still pretty cold in Ohio and I don't know if I should try
it in the next week or wait until the water warms up.

2.  If you capsize:

Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Ashley, Miles H, WCS
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:37 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina22] kayak

Since you're considering a rigid Kayak, I've been using and towing a 12'
Poke Boat with great success.  Check out their products at
www.pokeboat.com .  I've had mine since 1992.  I went to the Factory in
Berea KY and picked it up.  Weighs under 30#, so it is easy to pick it
up and toss around.  It is also very stable compared to a canoe.  I run
with Sea Kayaks often, and because of the light weight, I can keep up
with the leaders with no extra effort.  The bow shape causes me to use a
spray skirt in chop, but the forward buoyancy is adequate for all of the
situations I've run into.  The Poke Boat tracks well when towed from the
forward rope carry handle, but I had to re-bed the rope once.  The mfg
will work with you on those type of issues if you tell them how you will
be using the boat when you order it.

Captain  Miles  Ashley
Hull # 940 - Swing Keel
'72   C-22    Dragonass  
Chincoteague Island, VA

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Dan & Bobbi Batchelor
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:14 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Catalina22] kayak

Thanks to Andre and Brian for your input regarding kayaks.  I have done
quite abit of research and feel a rigid plastic kayak will suit my
needs.  I plan on going to the Paddle Sport 2005 show on Saturday here
in NJ.  I don't think I will be able to transport a rigid kayak on a
c22, but I can certainly tow it behind so I can explore when we anchor.

Butchie
C22 Swing Keel
#13320 1986
"Sandy Bottoms"
Beachwood, NJ (Barnegat Bay)
http://home.comcast.net/~d.batch/