Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] TransColloquium Meeting: Dealing with New Pope'sCampaign

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:23:45 -0400

Dirk wrote:

>Would that be all the orgs we know of, or only the ones that the 
>organisers feel politically comfortable with?

Since I am the organizer and it is being sponsored through Extropy
Institute at the TransColloquium, I think that if you are interested you
might speak to me or the ExI Board about participating, if you are
interested. 

One thing to keep in mind is that this meeting is a cooperative and
collaborative event for transhumanist organizations.  It is not an event to
argue political positions within transhumanism.

Natasha

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From: Adrian Tymes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:17:36 -0700 (PDT)

--- "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I think that Amara's post was an assumption that you are following
> for a 
> good cause, but it is not what the ExI meeting is about. 
> 
> This is not a meeting about "moral relativism." 
> 
> This is a meeting "Dealing with New Pope's Campaign" and the
> reverberations 
> that could follow, i.e., life-extension biotechnologies.   Also, I'm
> wondering why no one picked up on the "cultural wars."

Just a guess, but, perhaps because we're already living in them?
There's hope that, by addressing the logical underpinnings of the
Pope's cultural statements, significant portions of those he addresses
can be brought to support our side.

Although that's not the only strategy to follow.  Dressing our side up
to appeal to the faith, or appeal to his privledged status, might be
useful - especially since he's got to know that he was elected because
of his age, and thus is likely very aware of his mortality.  For
example: "Do you want the elderly to suffer and die before their time,
when they could do more good deeds if our technology was allowed to
develop?  What about yourself?  You would likely be among the first to
benefit*; you would have clear thought, and those you serve would not
have to suffer by seeing you in torment, until God recalled you.
Neither would this go against God's will, for if He really wanted you
by His side, there remain many ways He could make it happen, but if He
wanted you here longer, this would ward off the many corruptions that
make it difficult.  After that**, all your flock could be served in the
same way.  Is this not what your God would want?"

* Because the Church would pay for it.  But it would be bad form to
make a big deal of this in front of those who finance him, as most of
them prefer not to honestly think about where their tithes and
contributions go.

** Referring to inevitable reductions in price after the early adopters
pay off the R&D.

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From: Mike Lorrey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:00:59 -0700 (PDT)

--- "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Sorry I didn't get back to you Samantha.  I don't know if there is a
> text version.  I'm off onto more thoughts on the campaigns of other
> religous groups who also politically connected and which are
> necessary variables to a strategic model.
> 
> I hope that folks can move beyond the moral relativism issues and
> consider cultural wars and what the long-range issues are of a
> powerful organization that have the world's ear.

You mean the Ford Foundation? ;) 

Catholicism has the hooks in it to be reprogrammed, provided the right
code. Ratzinger is, IMHO likely to only last a few years. He's 78
already, and likely to be like the first John Paul, who kicked off
after only a month. Popes generally are not as long lived in office as
JPII was. I would suggest that, at this point, likely candidates for
Benedict's succession be provided with the arguments that will enable a
significant shift in church thinking when a younger generation takes over.

Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                                      -William Pitt (1759-1806) 
Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com

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