Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [LIST] -- A Proposal for the Future

From: "Chip Ford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:22:35 -0400

I'm having a hard time this morning focusing on "my job" while this problem
-- and all the great suggestions! -- keep running around in my head.  It's a
perfect day out there (sunny, 68°, wind calm, humidity at 78% --arrgh, I
should be out there working on "Chip Ahoy"!) and I'm supposed to be
revamping and updating  <http://cltg.org> our organization's website as
promised before the next fund-raising letter hits next week.  But my mind's
on this . . . I can't help it.
 
I think over the next few days I'm going to try setting-up a realistic
prototype of what a new applicant can expect.  This will be hard to do --
using the intro on the Chip Ahoy website -- as then they'll possibly think
it's website-based.  I'll be giving it subconscious thought through the day,
days.  But it's an excellent suggestion, if I can conjure up a means of
making it realistic.
 
I love this list -- there are so many good minds among us.  I just knew if I
tossed out my concerns, good solutions would return.
 
I don't think a token "non-refundable application fee" will chase off many
who really want to join -- only those who just want to see what
something-for-nothing provides, then opt-out quickly.
 
Real security vs. convenience on my end is the challenge to be met.
 
And if they decide to NOT join -- so what?  Nothing lost.  It's not like I'm
making money off circulation or advertisers or anything, you know.  Until
now, it's been free for new applicants; too much wasted time from me, and;
money to keep it going from
<http://chipford.com/list/contribs.htm#sponsors> List Sponsors when they
freely choose to contribute.
 
I'm still thinking, but like this "samples" idea.  Today's
one-day-in-the-life-of list traffic might be perfect  . . . !
 
Keep it coming.
 
Chip Ford, List Owner / Administrator
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" #3282
CTY032820374
Chip Ahoy website:  www.chipford.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [ <mailto:[email-masked]>
mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jim McGee
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:19 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [LIST] -- A Proposal for the Future

Chip,
Having run an online photography magazine for several years I can
understand just how much of your time this takes up, which is why I
didn't hesitate to become a list contributor (I think we all should).
Frankly as a boat shopping lurker I've learned a ton here since joining
in November.

But based on my own experiences, I think there might be a better way
than charging a subscription fee.

The main reasons people would opt out so soon would be that the list
wasn't what they expected and/or they got a flood of emails during a
time when the list was busy. Here's a way to address both.

Either you or a list volunteer put together a "sample" of list traffic
in a PDF similar to "Dick King's Gems of Wisdom". This PDF would be
sanitized so that no one's email address appears. It would give
prospective list members an idea of the kinds of messages and
information they'll see so they'll have an idea of what they'll be
getting before they join. This PDF could be available right next to the
button they click to subscribe.

When someone signs up I would make the first line in the welcome email
"Dealing with List Messages", and describe how to set up a folder or
sub-folder and an email filter so that all incoming list messages are
diverted into their own folder. That way you can read them at your
leisure without clogging up your inbox. This sounds like a simple thing
to those of us who're experienced users - but it's far from obvious to a
novice user. We often forget that for many folks their primary
Internet/Email experience has been in a work environment where
everything is set up for them.

Charging a nominal fee, even a dollar, will doom this list to a slow
death as surely as I will never be mistaken for Brad Pitt. Our online
photo magazine had a quarter million subscribers. Each month over 50,000
of them downloaded the huge PDF file for the full issue which was
normally 225 pages long. Our readership was engaged and passionate,
averaging over *600 emails per day* spread among our editors. When ad
rates plummeted after 9-11 we talked it over and decided that we would
keep the basic subscription free, but charge a nominal fee for some
non-basic services. We asked readers what they thought was a fair rate
for the PDFs. The response was about a dollar a month or a $12 annual
subscription paid through PayPal. I expected to be deluged with
subscribers. In the first three months we had less than 100. When we
looked at the numbers after a year we had done far better than the
average for Internet sites but it wasn't enough to offset the loss in
advertising. Eventually we shut down.

There are a lot of reasons thrown around by experts but the bottom line
is people are either afraid or unwilling to pay for online content. This
list is a living breathing thing. People come and people go. Add an up
front fee and people will stop coming.

I think that by addressing the "what is this about" and "how do I handle
the volume of mail" questions you can really lessen the impact on your
time. Also why not do the pre-screening by email and only follow up with
a phone call if there's something that makes you suspicious? That alone
could save a lot of time.

Sorry for the long post. I hope to be hanging around here for a long
time to come, and I hope that those who've been here for a long time
don't feel as though I'm overstepping my bounds.

My two cents,
Jim McGee
C22 (coming soon)
Maple Shade, NJ

"It's hard to make things idiot proof when idiots are so creative"
~ old saying among engineers

---

From: Peter Snyder <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:19:18 -0400

Chip,

I've been reading this thread and thinking about it.  In my business  
(architecture) we have a saying, "Define the problem and you can  
design a solution."  However, precisely defining the problem can be  
difficult.  I think there are a couple of problems here which are  
somehow related.  Let's see if I can state them properly.

Problems:

1)	Chip has to spend too much time qualifying list subscribers who do  
not stick around.
2)	Too many list subscribers don't stick around for long, don't  
contribute or ...anything.

Question:  If fewer people joined the discussion list, would fewer  
leave?  I think there may be something here, depending upon what they  
are expecting.

You have an excellent website that has proven very helpful to many  
people.  If people join this list to find out an answer to a question  
about their boat, could they have found the answer on your website  
without having to come onto the list to ask questions?  (I may be  
missing something here, if so then please forgive.) Your website is  
set up sort of chronologically, by adventures and by projects that  
you tackled as you saw fit.  There are parts of it that have  
hyperlinks to take a person to specifics about particular projects.   
Could you set up a hyperlinked alphabetical index by boat part, or by  
project, which would take folks to that particular aspect of the  
boat, its maintenance or use.

Then, take the archives of the discussion list and break the best  
entries into categories that would parallel that index.  Provide a  
hyperlink to those discussions.  This would be sort of like the  
Catalina Direct archive.  Probably a number of us have saved messages  
from this discussion we felt were worth saving.  We could probably  
help with this.  And, perhaps even provide links to other sites where  
some of these same things are shown, as specifically located within  
the other sites as possible.  This would really be a masterful list.   
Some of those other sites are managed by participants in this list.   
This would cut back on the same questions being asked over and over,  
which I think some folks may not like.

Then, as someone has suggested, set up a sample of several messages  
they might find on this list.  Explain that the list is for those who  
cannot find an answer to their questions on the website, or who want  
to be on the cutting edge of new solutions, or who just might want to  
comment about their sailing adventures.

Provide some way to isolate those incoming messages on the list which  
are only chit chat, maybe with a topic identifier in the header.  I  
think the chit chat drives off a lot of people, but others like it.   
Some tend to use the list as an instant messaging outlet with their  
buddies.  That's ok, but it would be better if not everyone had to  
read through all that.

This approach would maximize information availability up front,  
provide a way to get more information, a way to participate in new  
solutions, and a way to keep in touch with cyber sailor friends.

Just my 2 cents.  And, thank you for all you do.

Pete Snyder
Windabout - 1978 sk #8329
Lake Chickamauga, TN

On May 11, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Chip Ford wrote:

I'm having a hard time this morning focusing on "my job" while this  
problem -- and all the great suggestions! -- keep running around in  
my head.  It's a perfect day out there (sunny, 68°, wind calm,  
humidity at 78% --arrgh, I should be out there working on "Chip  
Ahoy"!) and I'm supposed to be revamping and updating our  
organization's website as promised before the next fund-raising  
letter hits next week.  But my mind's on this . . . I can't help it.

I think over the next few days I'm going to try setting-up a  
realistic prototype of what a new applicant can expect.  This will be  
hard to do -- using the intro on the Chip Ahoy website -- as then  
they'll possibly think it's website-based.  I'll be giving it  
subconscious thought through the day, days.  But it's an excellent  
suggestion, if I can conjure up a means of making it realistic.

I love this list -- there are so many good minds among us.  I just  
knew if I tossed out my concerns, good solutions would return.

I don't think a token "non-refundable application fee" will chase off  
many who really want to join -- only those who just want to see what  
something-for-nothing provides, then opt-out quickly.

And if they decide to NOT join -- so what?  Nothing lost.  It's not  
like I'm making money off circulation or advertisers or anything, you  
know.  Until now, it's been free for new applicants; too much wasted  
time from me, and; money to keep it going from List Sponsors when  
they freely choose to contribute.

I'm still thinking, but like this "samples" idea.  Today's one-day-in- 
the-life-of list traffic might be perfect  . . . !

Keep it coming.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:owner- 
[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jim McGee
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:19 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [LIST] -- A Proposal for the Future

Chip,

My two cents,
Jim McGee
C22 (coming soon)
Maple Shade, NJ