Subject: [SciPol 487] Re: God's Numbers

From: "MsRedSonya" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:29:05 -0000

On God's number and the comments posted

The classification of a Nobel Laureate would entail a tiny portion of
the general population, as are the
college degreed persons, both of those demographics fall into the
minority.

So why would these numbers be a surprise to anyone  when the
percentage
of college grads in the USA varies from rates iterated at around 30%?

As a whole, these demographic classes are but a small percent of the
population; not to mention
a person who won a Nobel Prize.

And, of course, its a poll, totally subject to market sampling and
all
those other errors and lovelies......

Personally, I don't think it falls within another person's right or
business to know what a person
believes.

To begin with, religion, or lack thereof,  is, for the most part,
a faith emotional type of value that is a reflection of their culture;
it is not a value that was derived from, or
relies on the collection of empirical data to render, or justify its
means.

And frankly, IMO, who am I to judge a countrys cultural values and
their beliefs?

Or individuals?  That's my neighbor and do unto them as I would have
them
do unto me, so why should I even CARE what he believes?

Why should I try to brainwash them out of what they do, or do not want
to believe?
Or infringe upon their cultural values.

Futhermore, by what and whose authority, have I received the right to
either try to take away from them their
right to think for themselves and or to believe in what they want to
believe, or to try to change it?

That's a dangerous line to tread where it could become a form of
brainwashing if
I interferred with the mental processing and mindframe of another
person, for whatever reason.

I don't have to answer for what they believe in and there is entirely
enough interferrence
already in the world.

We, at least I, do live in the USA where the right to practice freedom
of speech and expression
is a fundamental right, as is the right to practice freedom of
religion,  or lack thereof religion
without fear of retribution.

It also falls under the act of persecution to accost someone for what
they do, or do not believe in.

Some of the other polls out there and some interesting articles......

Religious Views and Beliefs Vary Greatly by Country,
According to the Latest Financial Times/Harris Poll
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=1131
Harris Interactive | News Room, (20 Dec 2006)

While Most U.S. Adults Believe in God, Only 58 Percent are
"Absolutely Certain" Poll#80
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707
Harris Interactive | The Harris Poll, (31 Oct 2006)
Differences between different demographic groups

..."Demographic groups that are more likely to say they are absolutely
certain that there is a God include:

People in all age groups 40 and over (63% of those ages 40 to 49, 65%
of those ages 50 to 64 and 65% of those ages 65 and over) compared to
people in age groups under 40 (45% of those ages 18 to 24, 43% of
those ages 25 to 29 and 54% of those ages 30 to 39);
Women (62%) slightly more than men (54%);
African Americans (71%) compared to Hispanics (61%) and Whites (57%);
Republicans (73%) more than Democrats (54%) or Independents (51%);
People with no college education (62%) or who have some college
education (57%) compared to college graduates (50%) and those with
post-graduate degrees (53%). "...

TABLE 2

..."DEMOGRAPHIC VARIATIONS IN BELIEF IN GOD AND CERTAINTY OF BELIEF

Base: All Adults

  Believe in God (Absolutely or Somewhat Certain)
\ Absolutely Certain

All Adults
 %
 73
 58

Region

East
 %
 70
 56

Midwest
 %
 77
 59

South
 %
 79
 63

West
 %
 64
 51

Age

18 - 24
 %
 66
 45

25 - 29
 %
 60
 43

30 - 39
 %
 70
 54

40 - 49
 %
 74
 63

50 - 64
 %
 80
 65

65 and over
 %
 79
 65

Sex

Male
 %
 68
 54

Female
 %
 78
 62

Race/Ethnicity

White
 %
 73
 57

African American
 %
 83
 71

Hispanics
 %
 75
 61

Party

Republican
 %
 83
 73

Democrat
 %
 72
 54

Independent
 %
 66
 51

Education

High school or less
 %
 76
 62

Some college
 %
 74
 57

College graduate
 %
 64
 50

Post graduate
 %
 73
 53

Religion

Catholic
 %
 84
 64

Protestant
 %
 90
 76

Jewish
 %
 64
 30

Born Again Christian
 %
 97
 93

College Degree Nearly Doubles Annual Earnings, Census Bureau
Reports
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/004214.html
US Census Press Releases, (28 Mar 2005)
..."According to new tables released on the Internet titled
Educational Attainment in the United States: 2004, 85 percent of those
age 25 or older reported they had completed at least high school and
28 percent had attained at least a bachelor's degree - both record
highs. "..."The data were collected in the Annual Social and Economic
Supplement to the Current Population Survey (CPS). As in all surveys,
the CPS data are subject to sampling variability and other sources of
error. "...

The Way We Live Now - What a College Education Buys
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/magazine/25wwlnlede.t.html?em&ex=1172638800&en=a6dff4628233a79f&ei=5070
Christopher Caldwell
New York Times, (25 Feb 2007)
MsRedSonyas Links
..."Not long ago, the conservative social scientist Charles Murray
wrote a three-part series in The Wall Street Journal in which he
attacked the central assumption behind President George Bush's No
Child Left Behind initiative. The idea that "educators already know
how to educate everyone and that they just need to try harder" is a
costly wrong impression, he wrote. Not all schoolchildren have the
intellectual capacity to reach "basic achievement" levels. In college,
similar limitations apply. The number of Americans with the brains to
master the most challenging college classes, Murray argued, is
probably closer to 15 percent than to 45."..."But the price of college
long ago outstripped the value of these goods. "..."But the education
kids are rewarded for may not be the same education their parents
think they are paying for. Economists would say that a college degree
is partly a "signaling" device - it shows not that its holder has
learned something but rather that he is the kind of person who could
learn something. Colleges sort as much as they teach. Even when they
don't increase a worker's productivity, they help employers find the
most productive workers, and a generic kind of productivity can be
demonstrated as effectively in medieval-history as in accounting
classes."..."But for the past few years at least, the particular
advantage of an American degree has been that it doesn't qualify you
to do anything in particular."

School Scolded for Blocking Girl's Attempt to Share
Faith
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200704/CUL20070404a.html
Payton Hoegh
CNSNews.com, (04 Apr 2007)
MsRedSonyas Links
"A New York court has chastised a school for preventing a fourth-
grader from sharing her Christian faith with her classmates. Civil
liberties law firm Liberty Counsel took up the case after the
Liverpool school district denied Michaela Bloodgood's request to hand
out flyers she had written to her classmates. "..."Liberty Counsel
challenged the decision contending that the school cannot totally ban
literature distribution during non-instructional time without
violating its students' First Amendment rights. "..."The district
court in the northern district of New York upheld Liberty Counsel's
case, saying that "none of the reasons the district articulated for
denying [Michaela's] request indicate more than undifferentiated fear
or apprehension of disturbance." "The court cannot say the danger that
children would misperceive the endorsement of religion is any greater
than the danger that they would perceive a hostility toward religion
as a result of the district's denial of [Michaela's] request to
distribute her flyers," the ruling stated. "...

 Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who
"Speak in Tongues"
PENN Medicine News, (30 Oct 2006)
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia.htm
..."Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine
have discovered decreased activity in the frontal lobes, an area of
the brain associated with being in control of one's self."...""Our
finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice
of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly
believe that the spirit of God is moving through them and controlling
them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects
are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity,
which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional
control while speaking in tongues." Newberg went on to explain, "These
findings could be interpreted as the subject's sense of self being
taken over by something else. We, scientifically, assume it's being
taken over by another part of the brain, but we couldn't see, in this
imaging study, where this took place. We believe this is the first
scientific imaging study evaluating changes in cerebral activity --
looking at what actually happens to the brain -- when someone is
speaking in tongues. This study also showed a number of other changes
in the brain, including those areas involved in emotions and
establishing our sense of self." Newberg concludes that the changes in
the brain during speaking in tongues reflect a complex pattern of
brain activity. Newberg suggests that since this is the first study to
explore this, future studies will be needed to confirm these findings
in an attempt to demystify this fascinating religious phenomenon. "...

The measurement of regional cerebral blood flow during glossolalia: a
preliminary SPECT study.
Andrew Newberg et al.
Psychiatry research 148 (1), 67-71 (22 Nov 2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=17046214
info:pmid/17046214 | info:doi/10.1016/j.pscychresns.2006.07.001
"Glossolalia (or "speaking in tongues") is an unusual mental state
that has great personal and religious meaning. Glossolalia is
experienced as a normal and expected behavior in religious prayer
groups in which the individual appears to be speaking in an
incomprehensible language. This is the first functional neuroimaging
study to demonstrate changes in cerebral activity during glossolalia.
The frontal lobes, parietal lobes, and left caudate were most
affected."

Can faith protect from emotional distress after stroke?
Salvatore Giaquinto, Cristiana Spiridigliozzi, and Barbara Caracciolo
Stroke; a journal of cerebral circulation 38 (3), 993-7 (Mar 2007)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17303768&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
info:pmid/17303768 | info:doi/10.1161/01.STR.0000257996.26950.59
"BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: Emotional distress is common in the aftermath
of stroke and can impact negatively on the outcome. The study was
aimed at evaluating whether religious beliefs can protect from
emotional distress."..."CONCLUSIONS: The strength of religious beliefs
influences the ability to cope after a stroke event, with stronger
religious beliefs acting as a possible protective factor against
emotional distress. "

Meeting Spiritual Needs: What Is an Oncologist to Do?
Betty Ferrell
Journal of Clinical Oncology 25 (5), 467 (10 Feb 2007)
http://dx.doi.org/10.1200/jco.2006.09.3724
 info:doi/10.1200/jco.2006.09.3724
"The original report by Balboni and colleagues1 regarding spiritual
support is not a subtle message about a possible need for a few
patients with cancer. It is a strong statement of a seriously unmet
need in the vast majority of patients in our care. The authors found
that 47% of the study patients with advanced cancer reported unmet
spiritual needs by religious communities and 72% reported unmet
spiritual needs by the health care system. If these figures were
reported for any other dimension of patient care, cancer care settings
concerned with quality would respond. How should we respond to patient
needs for spiritual support?"...

Religiousness and Spiritual Support Among Advanced Cancer Patients and
Associations With End-of-Life Treatment Preferences and Quality of
Life
Tracy Balboni et al.
Journal of Clinical Oncology 25 (5), 555 (10 Feb 2007)
http://dx.doi.org/10.1200/jco.2006.07.9046
info:doi/10.1200/jco.2006.07.9046
..."RESULTS: Most (88%) of the study population (N = 230) considered
religion to be at least somewhat important. Nearly half (47%) reported
that their spiritual needs were minimally or not at all supported by a
religious community, and 72% reported that their spiritual needs were
supported minimally or not at all by the medical system. Spiritual
support by religious communities or the medical system was
significantly associated with patient QOL (P = .0003). Religiousness
was significantly associated with wanting all measures to extend life
(odds ratio, 1.96; 95% CI, 1.08 to 3.57). CONCLUSION: Many advanced
cancer patients' spiritual needs are not supported by religious
communities or the medical system, and spiritual support is associated
with better QOL. Religious individuals more frequently want aggressive
measures to extend life."

Religious Legal Systems: A Brief Guide to Research and Its Role in
Comparative Law
Marylin Raisch
Globalex, (Feb 2006)
http://www.nyulawglobal.org/globalex/Religious_Legal_Systems.htm
..."After the events of September 11, 2001, academic interest in
Islamic law and countries governed by its principles as implemented
along with secular positive law grew in an attempt both to understand
the legal culture of middle eastern conflicts and to explore ways to
address issues arising in multicultural jurisdictions with greater
understanding. It is clear that in areas of private law such as family
law, inheritance, and in come commercial transactions, several
religious systems influence secular law or are incorporated as a
regime which may or must be applied in those areas or to members of
certain religious communities. As sources for legal research in these
areas are inter-disciplinary and often less known in the world of
legal research, an overview of the major world systems, and where and
how they are implemented, is offered."..."Jewish Law Essential facts
"Jewish law is the legal system of the Jewish people as it has
developed from Biblical times to the present." This definition by
Phyllis Weisbrod in Basic books and periodicals on Jewish law: a guide
for law librarians, 82 Law Libr. J. 519 (1990) summarizes a complex
written, oral, and oral-as-written textual history of sources for
Jewish law. Torah is the term used for the divine source of wisdom
relating to all of creation, so to work towards a definition that
relates to the narrower scope of its application as law, or halakhah,
begins with the Torah in a more literal sense, namely, the first five
books of what the Christian western tradition calls the Pentateuch or
first five books of what came to be the Bible. While the status in
Biblical and form-based criticism of the ancient compilers of this
narrative is beyond the scope of this guide, an oral history of
commentary on the Torah arose and became written down as the Mishnah
in approximately the year 200. Talmud and Torah also contain non-legal
teachings bound up with legend, myth and philosophy, referred to as
aggadah."..."Archaeological research and scroll discoveries have also
added to the wealth of study and potential sources for Jewish law. See
Baumgarten, J. "The Laws of the Damascus Document in Current
Research," The Damascus Document Reconsidered (ed. M. Brosh).
Jerusalem, 1992. In 1896, noted Talmud scholar and educator Solomon
Schechter discovered evidence of sectarian Jewish documents which
later were found to be medieval versions of the Damascus Document
fifty years before the Qumran discoveries."..."Christian Canon Law
(Roman Catholic Church) Essential facts The canon law of the Roman
Catholic Church began to develop alongside Roman law and indigenous
law in Europe after the end of the Roman Empire and the retreat of
ancient Roman law. Gradually canon law and its Roman law elements
would develop into a body of law that could challenge emerging
monarchies to develop a coherent national law or the civil law code
tradition of secular law in most of Europe today."..."Hindu Law
Essential facts From an ancient time, 2000-1500 B.C., the Vedic
literature existed, and while they inform a tradition of gods they
point to the concept of the One as interpreted by the Brahmans, these
teachers also used the sutras or memorized books (like textbooks) of
law or dharma (in one of its meanings; closer to "way of life")."..."

Believing Scripture but Playing by Science's Rules
Cornelia Dean
New York Times, (12 Feb 2007)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/science/12geologist.html?ei=5087%0A&em=&en=74f6eea730d244c4&ex=1171515600&pagewanted=print
..."In theory, scientists look to nature for answers to questions
about nature, and test those answers with experiment and
observation."..."May a secular university deny otherwise qualified
students a degree because of their religion? Can a student produce
intellectually honest work that contradicts deeply held beliefs?
Should it be obligatory (or forbidden) for universities to consider
how students will use the degrees they earn? Those are "darned near
imponderable issues," said John W. Geissman, who has considered them
as a professor of earth and planetary sciences at the University of
New Mexico. For example, Dr. Geissman said, Los Alamos National
Laboratory has a geophysicist on staff, John R. Baumgardner, who is an
authority on the earth's mantle - and also a young earth creationist.
If researchers like Dr. Baumgardner do their work "without any form of
interjection of personal dogma," Dr. Geissman said, "I would have to
keep as objective a hat on as possible and say, 'O.K., you earned what
you earned.' " Others say the crucial issue is not whether Dr. Ross
deserved his degree but how he intends to use it. In a telephone
interview, Dr. Ross said his goal in studying at secular institutions
"was to acquire the training that would make me a good paleontologist,
regardless of which paradigm I was using." "..."Perhaps the most
famous creationist wearing the secular mantle of science is Kurt P.
Wise, who earned his doctorate at Harvard in 1989 under the guidance
of the paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould, a leading theorist of
evolution who died in 2002. Dr. Wise, who teaches at the Southern
Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., wrote his
dissertation on gaps in the fossil record. But rather than suggest, as
many creationists do, that the gaps challenge the wisdom of Darwin's
theory, Dr. Wise described a statistical approach that would allow
paleontologists to infer when a given species was present on earth,
millions of years ago, even if the fossil evidence was incomplete. Dr.
Wise, who declined to comment for this article, is a major figure in
creationist circles today, and his Gould connection appears
prominently on his book jackets and elsewhere. "..."His creationism
aroused "some concern by faculty members there, and disagreements," he
recalled, and there were those who argued that his religious beliefs
should bar him from earning an advanced degree in
paleontology."..."Dr. Fastovsky said he had talked to Dr. Ross "lots
of times" about his religious beliefs, but that depriving him of his
doctorate because of them would be nothing more than religious
discrimination. "We are not here to certify his religious beliefs," he
said. "All I can tell you is he came here and did science that was
completely defensible." Steven B. Case, a research professor at the
Center for Research Learning at the University of Kansas, said it
would be wrong to "censor someone for a belief system as long as it
does not affect their work. Science is an open enterprise to anyone
who practices it. Dr. Case, who champions the teaching of evolution,
heads the committee writing state science standards in Kansas, a state
particularly racked by challenges to Darwin. Even so, he said it would
be frightening if universities began "enforcing some sort of belief
system on their graduate students." ""...

Sonya mail to: <[email-masked]>
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