Subject: [Catalina-22] [Tech] Tiller Stay passes test

From: "Robert Bemben" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:36:55 +0000

Yesterday was "test the CD Direct Tiller Stay kit" day - I sailed 17 miles 
out of Mackinaw ... wind blowing out of the West down the straits from Lake 
Michigan, then out of the East from Lake Huron through the 'wind slot' 
between Mackinaw I. and Round I. (COLD - put on the foul weather fleece), 
and finally out of the SE to push me back to the marina.

First, my apologies to Bayard. My cockpit cushions, although they press into 
the friction spools, don't appear to suffer from rope burn. For one thing, 
the lines of the Tiller Stay don't move much at all. So his layout works 
fine with the desirable downward pull on the tiller and the option of 
removing the line from the cheek blocks when the system is under high 
tension - incidentally Bayard I didn't need those special very small Wichard 
shackles to attach the cheek blocks to the eye straps on the transom; 
instead I used a pair of these: http://tinyurl.com/2crngz.

The nice thing about the Tiller Stay, as opposed to an Autopilot (aside from 
battery drain issues) is that it can be used as a sort of "power steering" 
boost at lower spring tensions. Takes some of the load, but still lets you 
steer. Negatives: To adjust tension you need to undo and retie some figure-8 
knots. Also hard to get the spring and friction spools to understand a 
compass heading. But it provides great relief when you need to leave the 
tiller for a couple of minutes - to resolve some issue on the foredeck or 
get something from the cabin. Some of my most exciting moments sailing last 
season were when my "dock line tied tiller" would suddenly slip while I was 
up at the mast or in the cabin - situations that are inevitable when 
single-handing for 5+ hours at a stretch.

I didn't try really high spring tension, which is supposed to lock the 
tiller in place. First, I want to "4200" or epoxy the tiller mounted 
component (just a pair of screws 1/2" into the tiller holding it now).

I GUESSED at the proper line angles (which is why I didn't "4200" before 
testing). I ended up mounting the tiller component only about 12" from the 
transom, forming about 60 degree line angles to the tiller. Seems to work 
fine. Further out the tiller and the line angle gets worse, and it might 
interfere with favorite hand grip points.

Robert Bemben
Bliss Twp., Michigan
1991 C22 wing keel
Sail # 15185
"Jib Dance"

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From: Glenn Warner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:03:28 -0400

I am obviously missing something here.  I don't use any type of  
tiller stay device so I am far from an expert.  I very rarely single  
hand and use my boat almost exclusively for racing.  But, we had a  
guy who did a few of the Florida Travel Series races single handed a  
couple of years ago.  He did what I have seen others do, and assumed  
I would do if I felt the need.  He used a couple of bungies from the  
stern cleats to the tiller.  He would employ this to go foreward and  
set his pole for the down wind legs and other times he needed to be  
away from the tiller.  It can be purchased in lengths and in varying  
thickness (strength/stretch) and seems like a very simple(in keeping  
with my KISS philosophy) cheap and effective solution.  Would this  
work as an auto pilot on an extended cruise with minimal attention?   
No.  But for short spells to get a beer, set the pole, prepare dock  
lines, etc.  it seems like it should work just fine.  You would also  
be able to override it easily in an emergency.  As I said, I am no  
expert by any stretch(heh,heh) of the imagiation, so this really is a  
question I am asking of those who may have tried this method.

Glenn Warner
Goblin#10369
JuJu#1222
Jacksonville Florida
On May 24, 2007, at 10:36 AM, Robert Bemben wrote:

>
> Yesterday was "test the CD Direct Tiller Stay kit" day - I sailed  
> 17 miles out of Mackinaw ... wind blowing out of the West down the  
> straits from Lake Michigan, then out of the East from Lake Huron  
> through the 'wind slot' between Mackinaw I. and Round I. (COLD -  
> put on the foul weather fleece), and finally out of the SE to push  
> me back to the marina.
>
> First, my apologies to Bayard. My cockpit cushions, although they  
> press into the friction spools, don't appear to suffer from rope  
> burn. For one thing, the lines of the Tiller Stay don't move much  
> at all. So his layout works fine with the desirable downward pull  
> on the tiller and the option of removing the line from the cheek  
> blocks when the system is under high tension - incidentally Bayard  
> I didn't need those special very small Wichard shackles to attach  
> the cheek blocks to the eye straps on the transom; instead I used a  
> pair of these: http://tinyurl.com/2crngz.
>
> The nice thing about the Tiller Stay, as opposed to an Autopilot  
> (aside from battery drain issues) is that it can be used as a sort  
> of "power steering" boost at lower spring tensions. Takes some of  
> the load, but still lets you steer. Negatives: To adjust tension  
> you need to undo and retie some figure-8 knots. Also hard to get  
> the spring and friction spools to understand a compass heading. But  
> it provides great relief when you need to leave the tiller for a  
> couple of minutes - to resolve some issue on the foredeck or get  
> something from the cabin. Some of my most exciting moments sailing  
> last season were when my "dock line tied tiller" would suddenly  
> slip while I was up at the mast or in the cabin - situations that  
> are inevitable when single-handing for 5+ hours at a stretch.
>
> I didn't try really high spring tension, which is supposed to lock  
> the tiller in place. First, I want to "4200" or epoxy the tiller  
> mounted component (just a pair of screws 1/2" into the tiller  
> holding it now).
>
> I GUESSED at the proper line angles (which is why I didn't "4200"  
> before testing). I ended up mounting the tiller component only  
> about 12" from the transom, forming about 60 degree line angles to  
> the tiller. Seems to work fine. Further out the tiller and the line  
> angle gets worse, and it might interfere with favorite hand grip  
> points.
>
>
> Robert Bemben
> Bliss Twp., Michigan
> 1991 C22 wing keel
> Sail # 15185
> "Jib Dance"
>
> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http:// 
> search.msn.com/
>

---

From: "Robert Bemben" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:50:06 +0000

Sounds simple.
So how did he attach the bungies to the tiller?

Robert Bemben
Bliss Twp., Michigan
1991 C22 wing keel
Sail # 15185
"Jib Dance"

>From: Glenn Warner <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [Tech] Tiller Stay passes test
>Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:03:28 -0400
>
>I am obviously missing something here.  I don't use any type of  tiller 
>stay device so I am far from an expert.  I very rarely single  hand and use 
>my boat almost exclusively for racing.  But, we had a  guy who did a few of 
>the Florida Travel Series races single handed a  couple of years ago.  He 
>did what I have seen others do, and assumed  I would do if I felt the need. 
>  He used a couple of bungies from the  stern cleats to the tiller.  He 
>would employ this to go foreward and  set his pole for the down wind legs 
>and other times he needed to be  away from the tiller.  It can be purchased 
>in lengths and in varying  thickness (strength/stretch) and seems like a 
>very simple(in keeping  with my KISS philosophy) cheap and effective 
>solution.  Would this  work as an auto pilot on an extended cruise with 
>minimal attention?   No.  But for short spells to get a beer, set the pole, 
>prepare dock  lines, etc.  it seems like it should work just fine.  You 
>would also  be able to override it easily in an emergency.  As I said, I am 
>no  expert by any stretch(heh,heh) of the imagiation, so this really is a  
>>Yesterday was "test the CD Direct Tiller Stay kit" day - I sailed  17 
>>miles out of Mackinaw ... wind blowing out of the West down the  straits 
>>from Lake Michigan, then out of the East from Lake Huron  through the 
>>'wind slot' between Mackinaw I. and Round I. (COLD -  put on the foul 
>>weather fleece), and finally out of the SE to push  me back to the marina.
>>
>>First, my apologies to Bayard. My cockpit cushions, although they  press 
>>into the friction spools, don't appear to suffer from rope  burn. For one 
>>thing, the lines of the Tiller Stay don't move much  at all. So his layout 
>>works fine with the desirable downward pull  on the tiller and the option 
>>of removing the line from the cheek  blocks when the system is under high 
>>tension - incidentally Bayard  I didn't need those special very small 
>>Wichard shackles to attach  the cheek blocks to the eye straps on the 
>>transom; instead I used a  pair of these: http://tinyurl.com/2crngz.
>>
>>The nice thing about the Tiller Stay, as opposed to an Autopilot  (aside 
>>from battery drain issues) is that it can be used as a sort  of "power 
>>steering" boost at lower spring tensions. Takes some of  the load, but 
>>still lets you steer. Negatives: To adjust tension  you need to undo and 
>>retie some figure-8 knots. Also hard to get  the spring and friction 
>>spools to understand a compass heading. But  it provides great relief when 
>>you need to leave the tiller for a  couple of minutes - to resolve some 
>>issue on the foredeck or get  something from the cabin. Some of my most 
>>exciting moments sailing  last season were when my "dock line tied tiller" 
>>would suddenly  slip while I was up at the mast or in the cabin - 
>>situations that  are inevitable when single-handing for 5+ hours at a 
>>stretch.
>>
>>testing). I ended up mounting the tiller component only  about 12" from 
>>the transom, forming about 60 degree line angles to  the tiller. Seems to 
>>work fine. Further out the tiller and the line  angle gets worse, and it 
>>might interfere with favorite hand grip  points.
>>
>>
>>Robert Bemben
>>Bliss Twp., Michigan
>>1991 C22 wing keel
>>Sail # 15185
>>"Jib Dance"
>>

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---

From: "Robert Bemben" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:30:39 +0000

Glenn,

I think what you might be missing is the safety aspect.

One think I noticed on the Tiller Stay is that when you pull the line up on 
the tiller to release it, the line does not whip around at all - it just 
releases the spring which is located a safe distance away along the transom.

I can imagine some nasty accidents with bungies of sufficient strength to 
lock the tiller in place; perhaps you can too as a physician!

Robert Bemben
Bliss Twp., Michigan
1991 C22 wing keel
Sail # 15185
"Jib Dance"

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