Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [TECH TIP] - Robert - dumping wind

From: "Robert Bemben" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:42:11 +0000

Jeff,
I remember some memorable beam reaches on our Hobie 16 - very fast point of 
sailing on a cat. Of course we'd be all huddled in the aft corner, but 
sometimes the leeward hull would dive into a wave anyways and we'd pitchpole 
up and over. Quite a sensation being lifted 8 ft. or so in the air before 
getting dumped in the water.

Anyways, back to C22s. My experience with beam reaches in high winds is that 
the boat wants to round up badly, and it takes a lot of effort to steer. In 
one thread, racer Glenn W. suggested that (at least when running, or broad 
reaching; maybe on a beam reach) it makes sense to head DOWNWIND in the 
puffs instead of turning upwind. At the very least, running would take the 
pressure off the tiller.

I'll let Glenn pipe in here if I'm wrong!

Robert Bemben
Bliss Twp., Michigan
1991 C22 wing keel
Sail #15185
"Jib Dance"

>From: "Jeff Fongemie" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [TECH TIP] - Robert - dumping wind
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:59:01 -0400
>
>Exactly Robert, I was on a beam reach. Nothing reefed, 110 jib.  At the 
>time, I had no more mainsheet to let out..I forgot about the traveler cars 
>(so little travel compared to my Hobie Cat) and the Jib was sheeted in a 
>little too much. I was complaining to my crew to let the jib out some as it 
>was back-winding my main. As the crew went down to the leeward rail to 
>uncleat the jibsheet, the wind pushed harder and it felt like as I pushed 
>the tiller to head up some, either I pushed too hard, or the rudder lost 
>purchase. Either way, she turned up quickly, at which time she either 
>heeled over a little more, or a wave hit as the low rail came about and I 
>thought for sure we were going to take on water. Crew (wife) was at the low 
>rail uncleating the jib at the time and suggested we drop sails and motor 
>home. How were my sails trimmed? I have no idea. We've only had this boat 
>for a month and I'm still figuring out where everything goes. I'm sure 
>everything was nice and baggy.
>
>After reading all the great responses to this, we went out in fairly 
>blustery conditions on Monday. I now do what I can to flatten the main, and 
>we even had a great sail with a reefed main. When the wind picks up, my 
>crew insists on holding the jib sheet in her hand uncleated.  Still 
>exciting and more fun.
>
>Last week I was interested in seeing what the boat felt like when heeled 
>over. It was lots of work and concentration. 6.2 knots (can this be 
>correct?) consistantly on the GPS and heeled plenty.
>
>This week, we sailed with very little heel, and it was much less effort. 
>GPS had us at 5.5 to 5.8 on our best leg. Not much slower, much less 
>concentration.  I read that flatter is faster.
>
>-jeff
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bemben" <[email-masked]>
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [TECH TIP] - dumping wind
>
>
>>As I read Jeff's question again, I'm wondering what point of sailing he 
>>was on.
>>
>>On a Hobie you generally only 'pop a hull' when close-hauled, or on a 
>>short reach.
>>The "main sheeted nearly all the way out" has me confused about the wind 
>>direction here.
>>
>>If it's a beam to broad reach, then "rounding up" is certainly a 
>>possibility. Then maybe Glenn W's "turn downwind in the puffs" strategy 
>>might work!
>>
>>
>>Robert Bemben
>>Bliss Twp., Michigan
>>1991 C22 wing keel
>>Sail #15185
>>"Jib Dance"
>>
>>
>>>From: "Jon Golliher" <[email-masked]>
>>>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>>>To: <[email-masked]>
>>>Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [TECH TIP] - dumping wind
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:25:46 -0400
>>>
>>>Jeff,
>>>
>>>That sounds like when the boat "sort of spun" and "heeled way over" it 
>>>was rounding up.      That's when the weather helm takes over and you 
>>>have no tiller control....and out of control directionally for that 
>>>moment. With the main already sheeted all the way out, all you could have 
>>>done was to quickly sheet out the jib to stay up.         It also sounds 
>>>as if maybe you should have had the main reefed for those conditions.
>>>
>>>Yes, rounding up like that is common in those conditions when your sails 
>>>are severely overpowered, also very scary to the crew and potentially 
>>>dangerous as you probably suspect.          I much more enjoy sailing 
>>>flat, with a reefed main and partially furled foresail.       More wind 
>>>than that combination can handle and sail fairly flat and I'm motoring 
>>>back to the slip.
>>>
>>>In heavy unpredictable wind some folks keep a hand on the jib sheet and 
>>>some folks keep a hand on the main sheet, ready to dump just in case they 
>>>get hit by a gust.       When a real surprise, I grab the closest one and 
>>>dump it.
>>>
>>>Hope this helps,
>>>
>>>Fair winds.
>>>Jon Golliher
>>>'85  SK  12712
>>>Happy Daze
>>>Anderson, IN
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: Jeff Fongemie
>>>   To: [email-masked]
>>>   Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:50 AM
>>>   Subject: [Catalina-22] [TECH TIP] - dumping wind
>>>
>>>
>>>   Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>   As I've stated here somewhere, I just bought this C22 and trying to 
>>>sail it by applying what I know from sailing catamarans. Everything is of 
>>>course similar, both being sloop rigged.
>>>
>>>   One difference I had the opportunity to experience, is quickly turning 
>>>to windward to deal with gusts. On a catamaran, I can be scooting along 
>>>flying a hull (same as heeling over) and when a gust hits I just turn 
>>>into the wind quickly to depower everything. The windward hull drops 
>>>gracefully. Works great to keep from overturning the boat.  On my C22 the 
>>>otherday, the wind increased until I had the main sheeted nearly all the 
>>>way out. We we heeled way over. I figured I still had some "give" since I 
>>>could just turn into the wind to deal with gusts. Well, I did and the 
>>>boat sort of spun, augered in heeling over more for a few seconds until 
>>>we were close to luffing.  Not nearly as gracefull to depower the boat as 
>>>my hobiecat.
>>>
>>>   I read about this in another post. Is this a common event in my 
>>>situation?
>>>
>>>   I'm thinking that from now on, if I have the main sheet way out, and 
>>>I'm still heeling too far over, give in and reef the main.  We also could 
>>>have dumped the jib sheet I guess if we were ready.
>>>
>>>   In bigger winds, is it common to sail with the jib uncleated ready to 
>>>dump???
>>>
>>>   Any tips on handling bigger winds, depowering the rig?
>>>
>>>   -Jeff
>>>
>>>   ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>   Jeff Fongemie
>>>   1986 Swing Keel "Surprise" #13699
>>>   Sebago Lake, Maine
>>>   STATUS: lubber
>>
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