Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:05:52 -0400

Boom Kicker disadvantage- don't use the boom for support or lean on it. It is not stable like a pigtail or topping lift.? Not sure if it will support a boom tent that is tied off snug.

another option- a few rolling hitches and a lashing. Bring out the Boy Scouts they can show you how to do it.? Simple and quick

Bill Bell
#13784 Phoenix
87sk, FL

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Skalski <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 9:23 am
Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail

?

Okay all, so now I'm thinking a boom kicker is the way to go. Seems as though my broken pig tail post has stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest with debate for alternatives. What's nice about this list is that there is no better source for info on equipment and applications for our boats than those with experience using it. For that, I thank you all. Here's what I see as points of discussion generated:

?

Topping lift advantage - up and out of the way

Disadvantage - can wrap around backstay while not in use; requires lowering mast to install

?

Boom Kicker advantage - rigid enough to support the boom; apparent easy installation

Disadvantage - ??? 

?

Immediate fix is a cable clamp to be installed over the existing swag on the backstay.

?

Thanks again all. I have a feeling this isn't the end of this thread!

?

Pete

11212

Liberty Pass

Buckeye Lake, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip Meisch" 
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:29:53 -0500 (CDT)

> Bob wrote: "Topping lifts are so yesterday. ;-)"

Skip would like to write: "Topping lifts are dangerous and inhibit 
sail shape."

If a topping lift is NOT eased off to the point that it is very 
sloppy, then it will keep the leech of the main from taking its 
proper shape. But then, if the topping lift IS eased off to the 
point that it is very sloppy, it can easily wrap itself around the 
back stay and cause a dangerous situation. I've seen both of those 
things happen too often for me to ever again use a topping lift 
while sailing. If you must have a topping lift to hold up the boom 
when the sail is down, make it so it can disconnect from the boom 
end and attach it at the mast while sailing.

Skip Meisch
Slow Flight #6850
1977 Swing Keel
Bothell WA

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From: "Pete Skalski" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:30:26 -0500

Jay,Robert brought up a good point earlier - for those of us who use the
pop top (I do fairly often, but certainly not while sailing), the
boomkicker would have to be removed. Guess there are pros and cons to all
options here, and leaving it on while moored or in a slip is probably not
a good idea. With that said, I am back to securing the boom while at
berth.  Glenn mentioned using nothing at all and holding the boom up with
the main halyard. This is a seemingly great alternative, but in my case,
the main halyard will not reach the clew to raise the boom without an
extension line. Thanks also for your kind offer to provide me your
removed backstay with pigtail. That is a mighty nice gesture on your part
-- another testament of your fine character (seem to remember you parting
with another piece of gear recently to a fellow sailor). To address the
immediate question of installing a cable clamp, I went to WM this
afternoon and found a stainless cable clamp that should do the trick.
Here is the link with pic...
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/94947/377%20710/0/cable%20clamp/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=cable%20clamp&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=cable%20clamp&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=175&classNum=272
Bayard's advice was to install a clamp over the existing swag on the
backstay, but I could not find anything large enough for the job -- at
least not at WM. Figured this clamp installed just above the swag would
do the trick, and not cause any excessive strain. Your expert and humble
opinions are welcome here. I'll be out of town on business tomorrow, and
will not be able to check email. My plan is to work on it this weekend.
Again, thanks in advance to all of you and I eagerly await any and all
future words of wisdom. Pete11212 82 SKLiberty PassBuckeye Ocean, OH

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Thomas Holz"
  To: [email-masked]
  Subject: Re: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail
  Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:17 -0400

Pete, I'm in agreement with Marc.  Boomkicker. And when the boat is
moored, I use my  pigtail and take off the boomkicker and stow it, so it
doesn't disappear...like Paul's cars!   Jay Thomas Jay Holz
Amsterdam,NY
1989 Wing Keel (CjAndeai)
CTYH5021E989

  ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete SkalskiTo:
  [email-masked]: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:23 AMSubject:
  RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail
  Okay all, so now I'm thinking a boom kicker is the way to go. Seems
  as though my broken pig tail post has stirred up a bit of a hornet's
  nest with debate for alternatives. What's nice about this list is
  that there is no better source for info on equipment and applications
  for our boats than those with experience using it. For that, I thank
  you all. Here's what I see as points of discussion generated: Topping
  lift advantage - up and out of the wayDisadvantage - can wrap around
  backstay while not in use; requires lowering mast to install Boom
  Kicker advantage - rigid enough to support the boom; apparent easy
  installationDisadvantage - ??  Immediate fix is a cable clamp to be
  installed over the existing swag on the backstay. Thanks again all. I
  have a feeling this isn't the end of this thread! Pete11212Liberty
  PassBuckeye Lake, OH

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Skip Meisch"
    To: [email-masked]
    Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail
    Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:29:53 -0500 (CDT)

    > Bob wrote: "Topping lifts are so yesterday. ;-)"

    Skip would like to write: "Topping lifts are dangerous and
    inhibit
    sail shape."

    If a topping lift is NOT eased off to the point that it is very
    sloppy, then it will keep the leech of the main from taking its
    proper shape. But then, if the topping lift IS eased off to the
    point that it is very sloppy, it can easily wrap itself around
    the
    back stay and cause a dangerous situation. I've seen both of
    those
    things happen too often for me to ever again use a topping lift
    while sailing. If you must have a topping lift to hold up the
    boom
    when the sail is down, make it so it can disconnect from the boom
    end and attach it at the mast while sailing.

    Skip Meisch
    Slow Flight #6850
    1977 Swing Keel
    Bothell WA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:58:36 EDT

I have a boom kicker on Serenity Now!, and removing it involves pulling a  
pin out of the end attached to the mast and slipping the boom end out of a slot. 
 A piece of cake.
 
Russ Hauser
Tavares, FL
1982 Swing Keel
Serenity Now! #113337
CTHY1337M82L

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From: "Chip Ford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:15:20 -0400

I agree, Glenn (Hedmark).  Naturally one would want to keep the topping lift
line clear of the back stay -- and of course, if one didn't keep it slightly
taut, instead allowed it to flail away -- like any loose line it could
become a problem; would eventually.  I've never had a problem with mine and
I've been using a topping lift for a few seasons now, and on "
<http://chipford.com/interest.htm> yesterday's"boats for years before.
 
Glenn Warner wrote:  "The entry onto the head sail and the exit off the main
are the important things to making your sails work.  Thats why the tell
tales are on the front of the headsail and the leech of the main.  In my
opinion, taking the above into account, I would opt for a solution that
didn't run a rope up the leech of the main."
 
But a topping lift doesn't -- or shouldn't -- touch the main sail or have
anything to do with it:  It runs from the end of the boom to top of mast,
independent of everything else, behind the main sail, untensioned or
tensioned just enough.
 
I've found that the trick is, remembering to loosen the topping lift line
after raising the main sail -- but that's not as bad as forgetting to unclip
that pig-tail -- and don't tell me I'm the first to look stupid as s**t
forgetting to do exactly that!
 
Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" #3282
CTY032820374
Chip Ahoy website:  www.chipford.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:06 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail

A topping lift set up correctly should pose no danger. Adjust it so it is
just loose enough to allow the sail to be trimmed properly and I think the
chance of it wrapping on the backstay is not an issue. Mark your line and
set it at that reference each time. 
Topping lift costs a lot less and you can adjust how high you want the boom
when the main is down.
If you have a boomkicker don't use the boom for support or a grab if you are
used to using the boom for that. The boomkicker will not support that
pressure and could be an unpleasant surprise.
 
If I mainly raced I would go with the boomkicker. I mainly cruise so IMHO
the topping lift is the best choice and has served me well for 23 years.
 
Glenn Hedmark
12533 sk
DiZire
Wauconda, Illinois

Pete Skalski <[email-masked]> wrote:

Okay all, so now I'm thinking a boom kicker is the way to go. Seems as
though my broken pig tail post has stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest with
debate for alternatives. What's nice about this list is that there is no
better source for info on equipment and applications for our boats than
those with experience using it. For that, I thank you all. Here's what I see
as points of discussion generated:
 
Topping lift advantage - up and out of the way
Disadvantage - can wrap around backstay while not in use; requires lowering
mast to install
 
Boom Kicker advantage - rigid enough to support the boom; apparent easy
installation
Disadvantage - ??  
 
Immediate fix is a cable clamp to be installed over the existing swag on the
backstay.

Pete
11212
Liberty Pass
Buckeye Lake, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip Meisch" 
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Catalina-22] [GEAR] - Failed Pig Tail
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:29:53 -0500 (CDT)

Skip Meisch
Slow Flight #6850
1977 Swing Keel
Bothell WA

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From: "Paul M. Hellings" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:09:52 -0400

They're called "Boom Gallows".  Totally inappropriate for a Cat 22  
but a wonderful thing to have on a traditional cruising boat. They  
are just the thing for taming a long heavy boom in a rough sea.

PS - I've only owned my Cat 22 a short time and have already  
forgotten the pendant / pigtail twice!

Paul
Paul M. Hellings
St. Augustine Beach, FL
1984 Catalina 22  "Dolly"
Swing Keel - Sail # 12629

On Jul 26, 2007, at 8:21 PM, Robert Bemben wrote:

> I don't mind the pendant/pigtail either. I've unsnapped it perhaps  
> a dozen times now while already underway, sailing close-hauled.  
> It's a good reminder to stay alert for more important things!
>
> There are times when I wish I could swing the boom off to the side  
> while at anchor
> (Don't some older wooden boats have notched boards bridging over  
> the cockpit for different boom positions? Quiz question: what is  
> the name for these...),
> such as when I'm drying wet towels and clothes.
>
> A topping lift would allow tying the boom off to the side, but not  
> the pendant. Whether a boom kicker would work would depend on the  
> weight of the wet laundry, I suppose. 'Nuff said!
>
>
> Robert Bemben
> Bliss Twp., Michigan
> 1991 C22 wing keel
> Sail #15185
> "Jib Dance"
>